Dec 05 2008
Will USSC Drive A Stake Through The Cult Of The COLB?
The US Supreme Court is considering one of many silly lawsuits questioning Obama’s US Citizenship – which I addressed for a while before boredom and good dose of bewilderment set in with the Cult of The COLB (aka, Certificate Of Live Birth). In the face of ever mounting evidence that Obama is a US Citizen, born to a US Citizen in the state of Hawaii, the COLB cultists keep stretching their credulity to the point of fantasy that there is still a chance Obama is not a US Citizen.
I hope the USSC takes up the case simply to drive a stake through this nonsense. It does not help the already busted image of the conservative movement to be associated with zealots of wild conspiracy theories. To be considered for serious leadership positions conservatives need a modicum of seriousness. The ones failing the test of readiness and credentials for office are those who fail the credibility requirements, not the person who has been elected and is about to take office as POTUS. It is topics like this one which make me happy to be unaffiliated with any party. We have the 9-11 conspiracy nuts on the left, and the COLB conspiracy nuts on the right.
With the sane and weary ‘moderates’ in the middle wondering when the hell politics will get out of the Cuckoo’s Nest.
Update: Michelle Malkin and I agree on something again!
32 Responses to “Will USSC Drive A Stake Through The Cult Of The COLB?”
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One of the few times……
I’ve ever wholly agreed with Michelle Malkin: Truthers to the left of me, truthers to the right: I believe Trig was born to Sarah Palin. I believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on U.S. soil. I believe fire can……
AJ,
I agree the CLOB issue has gone overboard. On the other hand the reaction of the Obama campaign is interesting. They could have put this whole issue to rest with just releasing the vault copy.
I believe possibly this has more to do with who the actual birth father is and not that he wasn’t born in Hawaii or a birth elsewhere was registered in Hawaii. The Hawaii officials would have to be in on the conspiracy as they have attested that a vault copy does indeed exist.
OK release the vault copy to disclose the attending physician and the hospital. This would put this to rest. If the father issue is at play here the fix was done at the time of birth and the mother didn’t disclose or concealed the true father. Interesting politically but not relevant to constitutional issue.
Here is the problem I have with you AJ.
You act so smart and then you equate the 9/11 truthers with the COLB.
The Constitution has rules. HAS Obama adhered to them not as far as I can see.
IS he secretive, Well is he.
All Obama has to do is show it yet he spends a fortune fighting it.WHY?
One is caused by doubt about the legality of his position,
The other is caused by radicals wishing to harm America, it’s always America’s fault
They may both be wrong but to put them in that same category shows faulty logic at best and complete ego at worst.
They are not the same your bias keeps showing.
Bloody Spartan,
Not only do I see them as exactly the same, I see them in the same group as the flat earthers, those who doubt the moon landings, Al Gore and the Global Warming nuts, and those who don’t think an embryo is a human being.
Looks like a common thread runs through all this …
I’m with Bloodyspartan on this one. There is no comparison between this issue and the ridiculous conspiracy theories of 9/11, Palin’s kid, etc). I think Obama surely is a natural born citizen….there is just no way he would have the audacity to run if he weren’t. But, I also think citizens have the right to see proof of such when it is in question. I hope the SCOTUS hears the case to put an end to it all also. This issue is a Democrat led complaint. And, to tell you the truth….I haven’t heard much of anything from the right on it (not from Rush Limbaugh, Hannity, etc). In fact, I think the head scratching on the right is because they know something isn’t on the up and up….or Obama would have just submitted his vault BC. I have no idea what he is hiding……but, he is hiding it well (hasn’t released any documents of any kind from anywhere about himself).
Now if SCOTUS hears the case, settles it…..and, rumors are still flying…..then, that is when it becomes a “conspiracy theory”. Until then…..I don’t have a problem with citizens asking for proof that Obama is a natural born citizen. I wish Obama would just cough it up and save us all the trouble.
Anybody want to give a good reason why Obama has spent over $500,000 bucks on legal fees just to keep his entire history sealed and locked down from birth to college years?
I think the COLB thing is a weird conspiracy theory. I really do. As for why Obama did not deal with it by confronting the doubters….what difference would it have made? Nothing he said or did would have changed their minds. Bush could say over and over again that he had nothing to do with 9/11, but the Truthers would not believe him either.
Will SCOTUS hear the case? I dunno, they only actually take up a fraction of the cases brought to them so I have my doubts.
My actual birth certificate does not exist, it was destroyed in a fire. All I have is a copy and no one has ever doubted its authenticity.
Rick Moran has an interesting piece up on this issue.
I dismissed this at first, too. But BO himself has kept this going.
Why the urgency to lock up his bc?
What justifies the $$ spent to keep it secret?
Why not produce it?
Personally, I hope this is settled in BO’s favor, because otherwise the repercussions would be catastrophic.
I can understand why the talk radio bigwigs aren’t touching this. But the fact is that there ARE legitimate questions. BO can very easily and quickly settle this, but he chooses not to. I can only guess as to why.
As Joe the Farmer remarked at The American Thinker:
“The question not being asked by the holders of power, who dismiss this as a rightwing conspiracy, is what’s the downside of disclosing? This is a legitimate issue of inquiry because Barack Obama has turned it into one. The growing number of people who demand an answer in conformance with the Constitution are doing their work; the people’s watchdogs aren’t.”
…
I read somewhere that Obama admitted on his web site that he was born a British citizen. At the time of his birth Kenya was a British territory and all its people were British citizens. His father’s mother said she was there in Kenya at his birth. No hospital in Hawaii has a record of his being born there. Hawaii issues birth certificates to children not born in Hawaii. If anyone thinks Obama doesn’t have the audacity to run for president knowing full well he is not eligible need to have their heads examined. He has the brass gall of ten men all democrats.
I don’t know the full story. No one except Obama knows and probably the DNC. All I know is there is a question about it. And, AJ, I don’t appreciate your saying I am like one of the truthers when I question this matter. If he is not a natural born citizen this will set a precedent. How can John Roberts swear Obama in if there is a question about his eligibility? After all, Obama is swearing to uphold the Constitution. How can he uphold the Constitution when he is lying about being a natural born citizen? The Constitution is quite clear on this matter and the dims cannot parse it as they do so many other parts of the Constitution.
Does anyone think the DNC would not perpetrate this hoax? They would if they thought they could get away with it. All I want is for him to show his birth certificate. One of the main reasons I was against his candidacy was I was not sure he would put America first. I am even more doubtful now that he won’t prove his birth. The man was a citizen of three countries at the same time. Who knows where his loyalty lies. This issue shold have been solved before the election and if the judge in PA had not declared Berg had no standing it might have been. After all, Obama refused to answer in the 30 day period. He has spent 800,000 fighting this matter. Something smells fishy.
BarbaraS,
Sorry, but your feelings do not change facts. His mother was a US citizen – that is all that counts. No matter where she actually had him, he is a US citizen by that fact alone.
You really think the US government would allow children of US mothers to be confiscated by other countries because they were not born inside the borders of the USA?
Puleeaase. To assess a theory you need to look at ramifications of similar scenarios. The key is what nationality his mother was. Not where and whether any other country or spouse tried to lay claim to the child.
Ugh.
Read this:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/why_the_barack_obama_birth_cer.html
…
The question is not if he is a US citizen. The question is: is he a natural born US citizen? There are several contingencies that determine that issue. An example: If he was born in the US to foreign diplomats, he is not a US citizen. There are other instances also. If he were born in some countries, such as Kenya to a 17 yr old mother and a British Citizen, it seems as if he’s not a US citizen. there seem to be several, cans, can’t’s, if’s, and’s and but’s. I don’t know which he is or isn’t. I’m not even sure if BO himself knows if he’s eligible, I think that’s why he doesn’t want to release anything that he doesn’t absolutely have to. Standing? I think every US citizen has standing. Every US citizen would be adversely affected IF he’s not eligible.
How will it be settled? Don’t know. Conspiracy? the answer will never be known, it won’t be adjudicated, it’ll be swept under the rug, is that a ‘conspiracy’, I don’t know. I believe 9/11 was a terrorist attack. I think the truth should be known about BO, but I don’t think it will, but I don’t think it’s a conspiracy. So I guess I agree with you, let the USSC decide, then we’ll all know.
I personally think there is credible evidence that Malcolm X is his birth father, but EVEN if that’s true, he’d still be a natural born US citizen.
Just declaring that because Factcheck says so, it’s legitimate, doesn’t make it so. I’ve seen several things that I know for a fact that both factcheck and snopes have been wrong on.
And as I saw on someone’s site: No state in the USA in 1961 would have used the word “African” for a person’s race.
that was even before the word ‘black’ was used for race.
Terrye,
you probably have never had an actual birth certificate, the state normally keeps those on file and issues ‘certified copies’ to the individuals. If you ever need your own birth certificate, you can get one from your state, usually dept of vital statistics, or State Health Dept. I know I was born in Georgia and I have my Original “Certificate of Birth”(it actually has a stamped seal on it). When I submitted a copy of that to get a passport, I was told for the first time in my life that it was not a ‘Birth Certificate”, so I had to get from the State of Georgia a “certified” Certificate of Live Birth. I later discovered that applied for my wife born in Fl, and for my two children, one born in Ga and one in Fla.
No Redteam, it is not a question at all. He was born to a US citizen woman, which makes him a natural born US citizen. You don’t get any more ‘naturally born’ than that. Location doesn’t mater. Foreign paperwork doesn’t matter. Foreign claims do not matter.
If they did then foreigners could ’seize’ Americans who were not “naturally born” because of location, etc.
Barack is Constitutionally protected as a US citizen because he was born to one.
This is ‘true conservatism’ on ‘really dumb’!
AJ, I’m not a lawyer, but I’m pretty sure that being born to just one US citizen is not the only requirement for being a ‘natural born’ US citizen. I feel relatively confident if your father were a citizen of another country, then you would not be ‘natural born’
an example, I have a nephew that is a US citizen, he married a woman Kosovo citizen in Kosovo and they had a child born in Kosovo. Is that child a ‘natural born’ US citizen. I think not, but I could be wrong. I read somewhere that being natural born means that the circumstance of your birth alone, not having to rely on ’some law passed’ to make you a citizen. that seems right. As in the case of my nephew’s child, I think she is a citizen because of the law that says that his wife if married to a US citizen so she is also, even tho his wife is not a US citizen. Thereby the reliance on that ‘passed law’ means she is not a ‘natural born’ US citizen even tho she was born to a US citizen.
“Barack is Constitutionally protected as a US citizen because he was born to one.” but you are also constitutionally protected as a US citizen if you are naturalized and both your parents are not US citizens..
But I’m not arguing the case, let’s let the USSC decide.
One interpretation of the US law that defines “natural born”, in Red Team’s scenario, the answer is no.
I have also read recently that Obama’s paternal grandmother said that his half-sister has her COLB even though she was actually born in Indonesia.
If I understand this correctly, the COLB is not the same as the birth certificate.
For one thing, I think a birth certificate is normally notarized with a seal. Secondly, Obama was born in 1961. Was the font size available back then? Was this a computer-generated form? Were computers available back then?
My copy of the birth certificate looks different from Obama’s. My brother was born in 1961 (in OK) so I wonder how his compares to Obama’s COLB….
lurker
COLB are issued daily and they are mostly, I’m sure, computer generated. They are supposed to be certified with a stamp, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be recently printed ‘copies of information of the birth”
There are many, many problems that have been pointed out about that COLB on factcheck, (race: African, for example) I don’t think there remains much doubt that it’s not a true copy, but that COLB has nothing to do with whether BO is eligible to be president. Virtually anyone can fake a document, and it appears that whoever faked the one on factcheck did a really poor job and shouldn’t have been paid.
But that’s a dead issue, only what the USSC says from this point on is important.
You are a perfect example why the left wins and the right loses nowadays. The left is willing to fight for what they believe in, whether it be global warming, socialism, their hate for Bush, their hate for the war on terror, etc. You, however, in the mold of John McCain are unwilling to take the fight to the opposition. Republicans are soft and that’s why we keep losing. We don’t fight. We just bend over and take it.
Obama could easily shut the door on this nonsense by simply producing his vaulted version of his birth certificate. Instead he has chosen to publish the green form as his proof. Not only is it as comical as a “National Guard Memo” with Times Roman, but the race of the father is “African?” How forward thinking were the Obama family since the term “negro” was the normal term. African is a race in 1961.
Thankfully, there are true conservatives who are willing to stand up and fight. I applaud their efforts.
It probably is a true copy but it still does not prove that obama was born in Hawaii.
Yeah, part of the argument.
It is not only what but when the USSC decides.
Redteam,
Half my family our lawyers. Being born to a US citizens t is all that is required. Born to a US citizen you are a US citizen.
Look at it in reverse. Can anyone take away the US citizen status of an individual born to a US Citizen based on where they were born, foreign government forms, the dictates of the non-US parent, etc?
Nope. Obama is a naturally born US citizen. Anyone who thinks otherwise is demonstrating their ignorance, not Obama’s lack of citizenship.
AJ,
Okay, I think I understand. If the parents are US citizens, or in Obama’s case, just the mother, it doesn’t matter where the child is born, they are still considered naturaly born and are eligible to be president.
So if a mother, who is a US Citizen, goes to Cuba, has a baby with a Cuban national named Fidel or Raul, brings the baby back to the US, the baby can grow up to be the president.
Thanks for setting the record straight. I’m not going to argue with lawyers.
Take a look at USS code 1401:
two links:
Constitutional Topic: Citizenship
and
§ 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
According to this code, it’s more complicated than just a single parent’s US citizenship, especially if Obama was not born in Hawaii.
For Obama to clear this up, all he had to do was to produce his birth certificate.
AJ,
If I could interrupt your diatribe for a moment, I’d like to note that you really are uninformed in this controversy and I would point to this post as exhibit A to prove the point and your confused equivocation between the terms “US citizen” and “natural born citizen” would be Exhibit B.
The case before SCOTUS was brought by New Jersey attorney Leo Donofrio, who did not predicate his argument on Obama’s COLB — whether of your so-called Cult or not. Rather, he predicated his argument on the definition of “natural born citizen,” which contrary to your adamant and unsubstantiated assertions remains a term without a clear definition. In fact, SCOTUS has never defined it.
Before you start calling me names, which in logic is called the fallacy of the abusive ad hominem, I suggest that you actually try to prove every assertion you made in this post, as well as the comments thread, and by “prove” I mean support your statements with facts, which are not the same as more name calling from the Slate, Michelle Malkin, etc. I am confident that if you approached this question logically, you would see why Justice Thomas took the case and why SCOTUS has presumably taken the weekend to chew on it.
One last thought: if it’s a lock that Obama is a “natural born citizen,” as you and others insist, then can someone explain why he hasn’t established this as a point of fact pursuant to lawful means provided by the state of Hawaii or the federal court system. After all, he’s a Harvard-trained constitutional attorney who also taught constitutional law on the side.
PS: Just got notice of this comment, which appears to be extremely well informed.
CTN,
Nice try, but the law is clear as the zealots are confused. As to why Obama doesn’t stop the lunatic right from looking stupid, I will leave it to the readers to solve that mystery!
LOL Too funny.
AJ,
Once again you have made more unsubstantiated assertions and you reduced yourself to more name-calling. LOL is right, but methinks the joke’s on you. Thank you for proving my point.
Just to be clear, because I read this on another site… If Osama Bin Laden married an American woman and they had a child. That child could be President of the United States?
On another site, someone was explaining that, no, the child could not because the Founding Fathers did not want split allegiances. The child would not be a natural born citizen but rather would have duel citizenship which is what they sought to ban. Is that true?
CTN,
The lunatic fringe proves the point every day. I only comment on them.
Cheers!
I’m going to have to take AJ’s opinion very seriously because he proved
his viewpoints are never wrong in last November’s elections!
Let the Supreme Court rule on the cases, that will be sufficient.
One would think experts could refrain from commenting if they decide
to take the cases.
I say cases because there are several. Donofrio’s case is trying
the question of whether the Consitution can confer the natural born citizen
phrase on someone, even if born in America, who then acquires dual
citizenship. Donofrio argues that the framers intended to specifically
disallow dual citizenship.
If the Supreme Court does not take these cases there will be many more,
including criminal defense cases both individual and corporate based on
the defense that no law has been broken because Obama cannot sign
anything into law, as he is not the president. This strategy is already
being planned and benefits from the expanded power of subpoena
available to criminal defendants. IObama will be dogged every day
of his life until he unseals his documents or goes away.
This is not the time for smug superiority. There are important issues
here, and it has happened before, in 1880.
Big Cult Leader Alan Keyes has written an article o n the endoing of our
Constutional Federal Republic.
Mr. Keyes was one of the Presidential candidates and appears to be
african-american,
Here’s a snippet:
At the moment, these different possibilities may be ascribed to the same occurrence. A great storm of interest and celebration rages at the prospect of the first “African-American” president, and the supposed implications of his election as a breakthrough in the history of “race” relations in the United States. Yet, because it centers on a man who has in his background and character no ties to the actual people and events of that history, historians will have to look elsewhere for the event that truly represents the denouement of the story whose greatest turning point remains the first American Civil War. By contrast, scant attention is being paid to the unfolding constitutional drama, also connected with his inauthentic personal history, even though it clearly represents a potentially fatal crisis for the regime of constitutional, democratic self-government that has heretofore determined the government of the United States.
The whole article is here:
http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=82640
Oh-oh, further cult alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pamela Geller – Atlas Shrugs, c’mon can you be any more of a cult??
She says this:
OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE: ANOTHER DAY, ANOTHER LAWSUIT
Despite all efforts by big media, big blogs, Democrafascists, and Republican cowards to ignore or worse quash the story, the folks just want to know.
Broe v Reed (hat tip co2hog.com)
December 6, 2008
James Broe and 11 other Washington voters have filed in Washington’s Supreme Court to have the votes cast for Senator Obama set aside, because he failed to establish that he was even an American citizen running under his own name at the time of the election, let alone a “natural born citizen” as required by the U.S. Constitution. Unlike other cases that have been dismissed for lack of standing, these plaintiffs have standing under a unique Washington statute that allows any registered voter to challenge the election of someone who, at the time of the election, was ineligible to hold the office.
The Secretary of State’s office has already admitted it did nothing to determine Senator Obama’s eligibility, and Senator Obama hasn’t produced a single piece of evidence to prove he was born in the United States that would establish his eligibility, although the burden to prove his eligibility was placed on him by the rules of the national Democrat Party. Counsel for the plaintiffs Stephen Pidgeon had only a two word comment: “case closed!”
STEPHEN PIDGEON
Attorney at Law, P.S.
Documents in Broe v Reed:
HERE ARE SOME FACTS:
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA SR. WAS A BRITISH CITIZEN AT THE TIME OB BHO JR.S BIRTH.
Source: Barack Obama’s own website
quote: “When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.
Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”
url: http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate
KENYAN CITIZENSHIP ADMITED BY OBAMA’S OWN WEBSITE (originally a british citizenship at the time)
THE CONSTITUTION MAKES A DISTINCTION BETWEEN US CITIZEN AND NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.
Source: US Constitution
quote: “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. ”
url: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article02/
So what is the difference between a Citizen of the United States at the time of Adoption of the Constitution and a “natural born citizen”?
Why has Barack Obama spent so much money fighting lawsuit after lawsuit, rather than paying $10 for a certified copy of his vault (long form) birth certificate?
Price: $10
source: Hawaii Department of health website
url: http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/vital_records.html
Anyone born in the US is legally a US citizen, anyone born of US citizen parents or parent is legally a US citizen, but who is considered a natural born citizen?
What did the framers of the Constitution have in mind when they included this verbiage in Article II of the US Constitution?
Should we just ignore it? Are we in titled to have this explained? And should the SCOTUS hear this case?
There are also some concerns about inconsistencies with his Selective Service registration form.
source: Debbie Schlussel
quote: “Did Next Commander-in-Chief Falsify Selective Service Registration? Never Actually Register? Obama’s Draft Registration Raises Serious Questions”
url: http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/11/exclusive_did_n.html
It could all be sour grapes from people that didn’t vote for Obama, but, do we have the right to know if one thing leads to the other?
Is it all a related logical sequence of events. Barack Obama was relatively unknow up to 2 years ago. There are several question marks regarding his background.
Several states have admitted to having not fully vetted Obama and declined to provide information by stating that they are not subject to Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) rather by the Public Records Act (PRA).
Source: MoniqueMonicat
quote: “Secretary of State Requests for Documents, Sample Letter, Responses in regards to request for Obama records”
url: http://moniquemonicat.wordpress.com/secretary-of-state-responses-in-regards-to-request-for-obama-records/
About a week ago, Pravda ran an article mocking the USA
for electing an obvious fake con man to the White House.
http://patdollard.com/2008/12/while-msm-continues-to-suppress-story-pravda-runs-editorial-laughing-at-us-for-not-verifying-if-obama-is-a-citizen/
So what does it mean if Pravda mocks Obama?
I think it likely that Putin would have been asked about running
the article before publication. Putin said “Da”.
The KGB message to Obama:
We know who you are.
The KGB is neither stupid nor idle.
We got you.
You will do as we want or the file comes out
and it’s dasvedanya time for you.
Here’s a thoughtful article on this issue by American Thinker in response to Horowitz’s op-ed:
Obama and the Natural Born Citizen Clause
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/12/obama_derangement_syndrome.html
It covers a lot of the areas everyone seems to be confused over and brings reason to the debate.