Oct 18 2005
Disasterous Idea On Immigrants
Chertoff and, I presume, the Bush administration are heading towards a political disaster.
Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said his department aims without exception to expel all those who enter the United States illegally.
“Our goal at DHS (Homeland Security) is to completely eliminate the ‘catch and release’ enforcement problem, and return every single illegal entrant, no exceptions.
We all know illegal aliens are a serious problem and national security risk. We also know the bulk of immigrants here illegally are simply the over-flow of the legal immigrants here to work and build a better life.
I know they are illegal, so is reckless driving and improper documentation of a vehicle. But improper documentation on a car is not the same as using a car to risk other people’s lives. So my position on illegal immigration is document them, give them some time here as a guest worker, and offer them a place in line for citizenship (the end of the line). If they violate our good will through breaking our laws they are out. If they do not stay employed most of the time they are out.
But rounding them up Elian Gonzales style and marching them to the border? Doing this to mothers and fathers and their children??
Count me out. There are many levels of breaking the law. Being too late to get a legal worker’s slot and not having your documents in order is not the kind of crime that lends itself to deportation via force of arms. I am not watching that seen repeat itself ten times a day for thousands of days.
[…] I know they are illegal, so is reckless driving and improper documentation of a vehicle. But improper documentation on a car is not the same as using a car to risk other people’s lives. So my position on illegal immigration is document them, give them some time here as a guest worker, and offer them a place in line for citizenship (the end of the line). If they violate our good will through breaking our laws they are out. If they do not stay employed most of the time they are out. […]
Agreed. Sadly, too many conservatives are not recognizing reality.
AJ, what’s with the doctored photo? I know there is such a photo showing the guy point the gun at Elain, but this ain’t it. The head on the guy on the right is definitely a cut and paste, or I’m seeing double.
LOL! Thanks TopDog – I just grabbed the larger one and did not see the joke!
OK, I am cut off for the rest of the day.
Over and out.
I have to agree with Chertoff on this one – but I don’t believe for one moment he is serious (unless he wants to run for Prez). Being from California, I can tell you the staggering harm illegal immigration is doing and some of it will have long term consequences. I’m sure it is the same for the southwest. WE HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING FOR YEARS that we were being over run by illegals and no one gave a G-Damn!
Its only when illegals have spilled out into the rest of the U.S. that anyone gave any notice. If you think this issue is only about cheap labor, you have way over simplified what is happening.
First, with regards to cheap labor. Mexicans are doing the work which other Americans would not do. Fair enough, so were Negros (at the point of gun). Paying Cheap Wages cheats Americans from taking these jobs (screw welfare). It cheats the federal and state government out of taxes (including social security). Getting away with paying cheap wages disincentives management from paying a living wage. This indirect subsidy of cheap foodstuffs is immoral.
Second, illegals are not all laborers. Many come across for the benefits of being an American. Try welfare, healthcare, better housing, schools etc. etc. etc. When I did some work in El Centro (a town on the US side of the Mexican border, it was a well known fact Mexicans would daily drop their kids off to American public schools.
You might think this is an exageration. Will get this, US hospitals in Southern California are closing down because they can no longer afford to “service” Mexican illegals free of charge. This is a fact.
Third, in case you haven’t seen it, Mexicans are voting in American elections (ask Bob Dornan). The California legislature, the City of Los Angeles, etc. etc. etc. are now largely hispanic. Soon, we in California, will have lost our soveriegnty – believe me YOU ARE NEXT.
These upheavals in California are spurring a mass exodus out. They are taking with them jobs and the ability of government to provide for the general welfare.
Mexicans are currently the new slave class. Eventually, as more come up, the servant will be the master. Habla espanol?
I agree we should not hang illegal aliens; I could also agree we should not apply torture but sending them back across the border (with their children) hardly amounts to “Extreme punishment”.
Come on lets get real. These people MUST GO. I have no problem with legal immigration or even a properly managed worker program. I don’t even blame the Mexicans for coming over. I would if I were in their shoes. I blame the federal government for not doing its job, especially in an era when terrorists can come along with this human wave.
I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THESE PEOPLE VOTING IN OUR ELECTIONS.
I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THESE PEOPLE STEALING JOBS FROM AMERICANS
I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THESE PEOPLE FREELOADING ON WELFARE, SCHOOLING, et al
I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE INCREASED CRIME AND COSTLY INCARCERATION THEY HAVE CAUSED ON CALIFORNIANS
This is not about “extreme punishment” or cheap labor. This is about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and the disasterous consequences we in the West are experiencing. We Want Relief.
GranitRoc.
If you assume all free loaders and tax cheats are more likely than not stealing from the greater good (if not stealing outright) then why not evict them from their homes and send them out of the country?
The crime of not having the paper work to make a living is not the same as a crime against someone else. The difference between a legal and illegal worker in the vast majority of cases is one got the paper work because they got in under the quota.
I have addressed the free loaders and criminals in my proposal – they get evicted.
Yes, it is incredibly harsh to grab a family making a living, take them from their home, have them lose their posessions and dump them across the border without a job or home to go to.
You are not going to get me to buy into that one – so don’t even try.
“If you assume all free loaders and tax cheats are more likely than not stealing from the greater good (if not stealing outright) then why not evict them from their homes and send them out of the country?”
If you are talking about American citizens, their punishment will be dictated via trial. Unfortunately, trying convicting, and incarcerating foreigners is like shooting yourself in the foot. You still get to pay the bill after being harmed. Better to just kick them out.
This is not just a paper work issue. Its a matter of fairness. Many Americans, including myself, are citizens because our forebearers legally entered the country (yes even with a quota system). The requirement “in the good old days” was that you had to have a job waiting and failing employment an American citizen became financially responsible for your.
Since we have become more enlightened, the benefits of being an American is a simple stroll across an boundary line. I’m sorry they have to wait in line, thats life. My progenitors didn’t like it either. There was (and is) a good reason for a quota. That is, it allows society to efficiently integrate immigrants into the American experience. Instead, what we have now are immigrants who can’t speak English and who are not inculturated into our society.
Sorry you can’t buy it. Everyone heretofor did.
GranitRoc,
you confuse my not buying legal immigration (which I do) verses extreme punishment for wrong documents. I know of people who are here legally, married to a US person and who cannot work because they got their papers in too late. If it is a form and permission there is no need to disrupt lives. None.
I have been clear they must find work, keep employed and stay out of trouble or they are out. That covers all your problem scenarios. They must be documented and background checked. That covers the security issues. This is a one time deal, the fail to submit and they are gone.
If all this happened and you still wanted to dump employed families wiht homes over the border where they have no jobs or homes – yes, I fail to see it. Maybe you need to shed some granite?
Cheers, AJStrata
AJ,
I guess we are just talking past each other.
Nolo contendere
GranitRoc,
Well, you could call it that. I just happen to have a higher bar for the kinds of illegal actions which result in losing your home and job as punishment. Punishment must fit the crime.
And I feel I have legitimately addressed every major issue regarding the problems of illegal immigration and the privilege to work here.
I am against amnesty and jumping ahead in line towards citizenship.
If you can live with what I proposed it can be done tomorrow.