Apr 22 2009
Is Anyone Going To Care If Khalid Sheik Mohammed Was Waterboarded?
Khalid Sheik Mohammed (KSM) is a truly evil man, right up there with history’s other notorious evil men like Hitler. The good news for humanity is he never got a chance to rule and show us his full potential. While Bin Laden gets the credit for the atrocities of 9-11, the real credit goes to KSM, he made it happen. His list of crimes is long and gruesome:
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was a member of Osama bin Laden‘s al-Qaeda organization, although he lived inKuwait rather than Afghanistan, heading al-Qaeda’s propaganda operations from sometime around 1999. According to the 9/11 Commission Report he was “the principal architect of the 9/11 attacks”. He is also thought to have had, or has confessed to, a role in many of the most significant terrorist plots over the last twenty years, including the World Trade Center 1993 bombings, the Operation Bojinka plot, an aborted 2002 attack on Los Angeles’ U.S. Bank Tower, the Bali nightclub bombings, the failed bombing of American Airlines Flight 63, the Millennium Plot, and the murder of Daniel Pearl.
We know from the Obama administration’s disclosure of classified material the man was waterboarded many, many times. He was sleep deprived and possibly slapped on the face. As some folks said it was tragic he did not get a taste of various college initiation rights as well. Our fighting men and women go through waterboarding to train them how to face up to what is really just a simple reflex action. There is no ‘near drowning’ as the liberal media has been hyperventilating. A cloth is placed over the face and water is poured over it, causing the reflexive panic that kicks in when one IS drowning. But it is nearly impossible to drown, the amount  of water being used is just not that much. It is trick of the senses, it is not real drowning (water in lungs, etc).
For the man who is responsible for pulling off the attacks that killed 3,000 innocent men, women and children on 9-11 this trick of the senses is minor in comparison to his actions. He had plans in his possession for more evil and bloody deeds. He knew all about others in al Qaeda who had their own plans for evil and bloody carnage. And he divulged much of what he knew and we saved many lives and rounded up a lot of terrorists because this nation decided to fake out his reflexes and make it seem like he was drowning.
The reward for this success of course is a witch hunt by democrats in Congress and the White House in a lame attempt to divert America from the fact that all their mad spending and bankrupting the country is not working to fix the job market as they promised:
President Obama signaled Tuesday that he has changed his stance on the prosecution of Bush Administration aides over the possible torture of terrorism suspects. Coverage of the story is extensive, leading all three network newscasts, and is generally negative toward the Administration. Much of it casts Obama’s comments as a reversal — one triggered by criticism from Capitol Hill Democrats and key segments of his political base. Both print and TV reports also tend to note Obama’s apparent contradiction of recent comments on the issue by his chief of staff Rahm Emanuel. The CBS Evening News called Obama’s remarks “stunning,” and noted “the White House later denied the President had reversed policy.”
This could really blow up in Obama’s face. He is supposed to be chasing down terrorists and stopping their efforts to hit us. He is not supposed to be going after those trying to find and stop the terrorists, who are doing the job of protecting this nation. Obama is nuts to pick a legal fight with the intelligence community.Â
These people know a lot of dark little secrets, and they can divulge information too. In fact, they are starting to do that very thing right now, openly:
President Obama’s national intelligence director told colleagues in a private memo last week that the harsh interrogation techniques banned by the White House did produce significant information that helped the nation in its struggle with terrorists.
“High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qa’ida organization that was attacking this country,†Adm. Dennis C. Blair, the intelligence director, wrote in a memo to his staff last Thursday.
…
Gen. Michael V. Hayden, the director of the Central Intelligence Agency under Mr. Bush, said on Fox News Sunday last weekend that “the use of these techniques against these terrorists made us safer. It really did work.†Former Vice President Dick Cheney, in a separate interview with Fox, endorsed that conclusion and said he has asked the C.I.A. to declassify memos detailing the gains from the harsh interrogations.
The Dems better back off this quickly, or else those defending us will have to defend themselves, and they would be within their rights to expose the entire picture. Including those parts that indicate what threats were headed our way (many listed above already tied to KSM) and how many people could have died.
But that would be a mild problem compared to the fire storm that will erupt if we are attacked again. If that happened then Obama’s words would come back to haunt him big time:
“I’m sure that sometimes it seems as if that means we’re operating with one hand tied behind our back or that those who would argue for a higher standard are naïve,†he said. “I understand that. You know, I watch the cable shows once in a while.â€
But he added: “What makes the United States special, and what makes you special, is precisely the fact that we are willing to uphold our values and our ideals even when it’s hard, not just when it’s easy.â€
This is not TV Bozo! This is real life. Obama sits behind a phalanx of secret service protections, but the exposed average Americans who would die in droves if we experience another 9-11 have no such protections. Why should good Americans die to pamper an admitted and known killer, who knows where other killers are and what their plans are? Is anyone going to risk their loved ones over the likes of KSM? Obama is kidding himself (as are the liberals) if they think we would shed even a single tear for this scum, let alone risk our lives. The dems just don’t get it.
Witch hunts will not fix the bad economy. There is no way to play for time and try and divert the nation’s attention with this crap. The failed plans of mad spending by a sluggish government is just not going to kick in as would have tax cuts. Â This diversion is not going to hide or mute that pending train wreck.
But more than that, the American people will be rightfully wondering why our distracted government is treating the mad man behind 9-11 like a victim ,while attacking the defenders of this nation as if they committed a crime. If you want to look totally clueless, that’s one great way to do it. I wish I could say the liberal democrats aren’t that stupid, but I thought they weren’t that stupid on a lot of things. Sadly, I think they are going to out do themselves this time.
Update: That didn’t take long, It seems Obama has a backlash brewing in the Intel Community:
Sad to say, it’s slow roll time at Langley after the release of interrogation memos that, in the words of one veteran officer, “hit the agency like a car bomb in the driveway.” President Obama promised CIA officers that they won’t be prosecuted for carrying out lawful orders, but the people on the firing line don’t believe him. They think the memos have opened a new season of investigation and retribution.
The lesson for younger officers is obvious: Keep your head down. Duck the assignments that carry political risk. Stay away from a counterterrorism program that has become a career hazard.
Runaway from defending this nation? Are we now less safe since the Dems claimed it was open season on the defenders?
Put yourself in the shoes of the people who were asked to interrogate al-Qaeda prisoners in 2002. One former officer told me he declined the job, not because he thought the program was wrong but because he knew it would blow up. “We all knew the political wind would change eventually,” he recalled. Other officers who didn’t make that cynical but correct calculation are now “broken and bewildered,” says the former operative.
So those who made the hard choice and went into selflessly into the war are now being hunted, while the spineless cowards who thought more of themselves than their country crow? This is going to really blow up.
Â
Do I care if he was waterboarded? Yes, and I’m damned happy that he was.
If it had been necessary to cut off his fingers to get the info he had, it would have been fine with me. but only because they “knew” he had the info.
I do not support torture for mundane things but in cases such as this, I do.
mundane: if you are suspected of running a stop sign, they shouldn’t be allowed to torture you to get an admission.
Note: waterboarding, not torture
cutting fingers off, torture
As a former Democrat, I am shocked at the stupidity, ineptness and blindness that we see among leaders and rich white educated and (presumabely) guilt-laden members of that party.
Perhaps they cannot help it. You see the pictures above, and it appears that we humans are caught in some HUGE machinations of good and evil, civilization and barbarism, culture and primitive nature and that these forces are simply carrying us forward willy nilly despite our (possibly) good intentions. I hope these jokers – both the barbarians and the ‘civilized’ ones – don’t ruin everything so that we make it to 2012 to see if some cosmic re-balancing is really what is going on. Otherwise, it cannot be understood and we ‘regular’ people are left out here either listening to the right wing views and fears or the left wing views and fears and we simply refuse to see that the big picture includes both views. Only when we come together will we begin to get the picture, but our ‘leaders’ lead us into thinking only their views are correct. Pehaps it is just that most people need a simplistic view of life. It is more than sad.
Do I give a damn wether he was waterboarded? I couldn’t care less. My main belief is that waterboarding is treating a scumbag like this with tickle-torture. Might as well use a feather on the bottom of his feet.
This man needs real torture. Beat the shit out of him. Cut fingers off. Jolt him with electricity until sparks fly from his toes. Squeeze every last tidbit of information about the orginizational structure of Al-Queada from him using any means. Leave him a shell of a man, convict him of his crimes, and put this mad dog to sleep with a bullet in his head.
If we could get this much out of him by pussyfooting around with waterboarding and bitch-slapping him, think of what we could have gotten if we really did something bad.
Thanks for the pic AJ. Its been a while since I’ve seen them. We should be looking at them every day as a reminder of what they did to us.
First, I do not feel water boarding is torture. As Redteam says above, cutting off fingers would be considered torture. I do not think psychological and physical pain are the same. That being said, this evil piece of human excrement deserves worse, much worse.
I have been outraged for days since King Obama felt for political reasons, it would be best for US image to release CIA interrogation techniques than to perhaps think bigger picture; however, his action has aided and abetted the enemy. For a president to do this during war time is unprecedented and I feel board line treason. Read this article from the Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/21/AR2009042102969.html
I also agree with your assessment that the CIA is not one to be messed with. The backlash King Obama is about to undergo will be ugly. Another astonishing action by King O is, he visits and gives this “please love me, don’t be mad at me†speech at the CIA, does this suck up job, don’t worry I’ll protect you mantra, then turns around and backstabs them all.
Another point I would like to make is all the Congress critters and Senators who knew about these techniques and gave congressional approval. One of the things I’ve learned in taking intelligence classes is, all of congress and senate have access to classified intelligence reports. They have within the capital a place they can view thousands of reports that are filed by the IC. So, for them to say, we didn’t know is utter bull crap. Also, many of their staff members have access to classified documents. Knowing this information could explain why, when classified information is leaked to the press, it is hard to determine who did huh?
If King Obama insists on going down this path to self destruction, he will take many democratic leaders with him. This will be ugly and well just perhaps…necessary? However, King O has placed the US even greater risk for terrorist attacks and I see a return to 9/10 surfacing. As I stated in a recent case study on the Marine barracks bombing in Beirut on lessons learned, “lessons were learned but not applied.â€
KSM has forfeited any rights to which “humans” are entitled. Fight terror with terror if need be—sweet talking can win a presidential election, but it can not effect long lasting change and strengthens your enemy. Leaders need the stomach to make hard decisions and be willing to sacrifice the lives of terrorists for the flock they guard. We have no leaders in place just the results of the latest american idol contest. Our elected leaders have no real convictions, pander to childish needs and can’t make a single good decision without reading polls.
History will repeat itself.
I find Obama so politically and practically naive on this subject that it is appalling.
In the DOD supplemental he sent to congress, he allocated millions, I think I read $30 million, to resettle some of the 250 odd terrorists that are at Gitmo in other countries, to help them socially adjust. I guess he is banking on congress not reading the supplemental, or the supplemental is so late, nobody will hold up the money to our service members over letting these guys go.
I have heard it said that waterboarding is torture (crap as far as I’m concerned), and that other methods would have worked, but that Bush didn’t try other methods. If only Bush had tried other methods we could have gotten the information. Please, tell me how these pundits know that other methods were not tried, and tried over and over again, before the CIA went to waterboarding. They don’t know. My hunch is that the agents tried everything known to man before they waterboarded. And it was only after everything was tried that they went to the President to ask for more.
I agree with Cheney. You want to unclassify these memos, then unclassify all of it. President Bush was not allow to talk publicly about classified material. Well the cat is out of the bag now. So lets talk about it. Let’s start at the beginning of the interrogation and go forward to when we got the information.
Obama had access to all this information and studied it for 4 weeks, and still decided to give up the memos. He is one sick politician.
When the Federal government states that President Bush is a torturer, why is it that the ICC can’t prosecute the President for crimes against humanity?
For those interested in more details from interrogation go to “Gateway Pundit”
Ask the family of a jumper from the towers if they want to protect the people who did that from “discomfort”. But all of this stupidity seems to be in character for this Administration.
Canada, for example, is now asking how our Secretary of Homeland Security got her job as she repeats “moonbat” talking points that were debunked a week after the attacks.
We have a moronic convergence in Washington DC. We have gaggles of people who don’t know what the heck they are doing being put into positions just because they are part of the “in” crowd.
I haven’t seen such ineptitude in Washington since Carter’s “Georgia Mafia” rolled in to town.
What a bunch of idiots.
The unsettling part of this, for me, is that this is a pure political move to please the demographic of this country that is against what they consider torture. Legally, there is no way anyone can be prosecuted for this. You can’t decide that something can be legally prosecuted because you disagree with it. Pres. Obama knows this. So what is he doing? He’s just throwing a bone to the people who think it’s wrong. If he disagrees with waterboarding etc., then just end the practice. But by putting this out there he is putting everyone in the intelligence community on CYA alert. The world is now less safe because Pres. Obama needs a bit more approval from a small demographic of America and the world. Good job. Plus, he isn’t even man enough to be straightforward with it. He passes on it by saying he’ll leave it to the AG to decide.
“When the Federal government states that President Bush is a torturer, why is it that the ICC can’t prosecute the President for crimes against humanity?”
Bingo kathie. Somebody better watch because all this crap has raised Rove and Bolton’s radar. I would not be surprised to see this country give over all power by the end of Obama’s reign of terror. He beats Jimmy Carter in the danger department. He has a plan. He is not naive. Somebody better tune out all his words and only look at his REAL actions.
Torture. I have been outraged over this subject since Abu Ghraib and only Sen Inhofe showed an ounce of common sense at the hearings. Breaking bones is torture. Waterboarding is scaring you to confess.
I wish someone would start a petition to deliver to the President and call it ‘Let Me’. I will NOT torture but they can call on me to use any of the listed items on these guys. Oh please, let me. Half of this country has been brain washed out of their survival instincts. They have arrived on a higher moral plane. Oh yeah.
Obama is only two points above water in “strong support” and only four points above water in “overall support”. For the second week running, the Republicans are tied with the Democrats in the generic Congressional ballot.
Obama is going to start doing some desperate things to get his numbers up because I believe once he goes under 50% support, the bottom is going to fall out. I say that because I live in the SF Bay area and there are some local social networking sites where it is currently fashionable to bash the Obama administration. Currently only the “kewl kids” are doing the bashing but if that catches on, watch out. Obama is also rapidly losing the under 35 demographic.
Exactly the answer I expected from the 100th Non-Fighting Bedwetters Brigade.
A DOJ source has told Mac Ranger that this isn’t going anywhere
http://macsmind.com/wordpress/2009/04/21/there-will-be-no-prosecutions-over-interrogation-techniques/
If waterboarding would have saved us from 9/11…..would anyone really have said, “no, don’t do it”???
One thing we know for sure is that the techniques used gave us most of our intel about al Qaeda and stopped several plots (including a second wave 9/11 type attack on LA).
Whether to use them can always be debated.
However, what I look for, and am very proud to see is the carefulness our government took with these issues. Legal opinions, medical guidelines on how far to go, no real torture (in my mind), and very rare use.
This was a new kind of war, a situation we had never found ourselves in before. Tough decisions had to be made. Those decisions can and should be debated within our government as we move forward. But, that is a far cry from war crimes.
Prosecuting prior Administrations for policy differences is a bad precedent and will turn us into a third world country where one Admininstration puts the past Administration in prison for political reasons.
What upsets me is that the “waterboarding” procedure should have never been leaked. Who was ever prosecuted for leaking that classified information? Was any investigation done to determine who leaked it?
What upsets me more, is that Obama has stripped this nation of ever using the tools that kept us safe again. Ever. It would have been fine to change some of those techniques (and even ban some) secretly.
We are pretty much “intel dysfunctional” now. The CIA has had it’s hands tied by Obama. How do we ever get over that? I am a bigger threat to al Qaeda than our own CIA is right now because I would most certainly waterboard (and more) a known terrorist who had info about an upcoming attack).
But Obama found the money to increase the Obama Youth Brigades from 75,000 to 250,000 yesterday which includes specific funds for ACORN while gutting the defense budget in wartime. It’s all about priorities.
What a nincompoop.
The paragraph below describes the mind set of the terrorists.
…Zubaydah himself explained with respect to enhanced techniques, “brothers who are captured and interrogated are permitted by Allah to provide information when they believe they have ‘reached the limit of their ability to withhold It’ in the face of psychological and physical hardships.” …indeed, we understand that since the use of enhanced techniques, “KSM and Abu Zubaydah have been pivotal sources because of their ability and willingness to provide their analysis and speculation about the capabilities, methodologies, and mindsets of terrorists…”
So if we can’t get terrorists to believe that they have “reached the limit of their ability to withhold It” we have no ability to get information. Now that terrorists KNOW the limit of our ability to get information, they will not give it up. Obama had to know this information and still was willing to order the release of the memos.
I’m beginning to think that then Wright was talking about the chickens have come home to roost……he had the election of Obama in mind.
After reading the stuff @ Gateway (thanks kathie) —
http://tinyurl.com/c4jhno
— it’s obvious that waterboarding, and presumably other “enhanced” techniques, netted some extremely valuable information.
Just how is it then that John McCain, who I assume would have known all this, could go out there on the campaign trail and repeatedly say these types of techniques “don’t work”? And advocate in congress to put a stop to them?
I’m almost ready to put him in the same category as Obama as far as doing damage to our ability to get vital information.
gary……..the reason that McCain went out on the campaign trail and said IET’s don’t work is because like the rest of the republican party they were and are political cowards. Like Obama they hoped they could get elected by diminishing Bush, lying about top secret information that they knew Bush couldn’t talk about or defend himself against.
Look, Bagulla and Carville are masters at spin, knowing which stories you can get out and can’t be defended, which words can hurt, how to repeat a story for maximum effect and they do. After Clinton they hit back and hard. Did they care if we as a country were fighting for out lives. NO, they care about politics and power.
Congress knew or could have known what was true, but did they support their president then the going got tough, NO, they covered their asses and their asses got kicked. I think that Americans know instinctively that a President is not going to get everything right, but political cowards are not acceptable. Obama may well soon learn where Americans draw the line.