Nov 06 2005
Wilson’s Green Problem
UPDATE IV:
Folks, as many have noted the Hanson rumor has been squashed by Hanson. Just an FYI for folks dropping by here.
UPDATE III:
Live blogged comments of Vallely on Hannity 11/07/05 PM
UPDATE II:
Turns out Lt. General Tom McInerney, USAF, who also a FOX News analyst, will join Paul Vallely in claiming Joe Wilson consistently mentioned the fact his wife worked at the CIA. Note that the primary legal concern was the supposed leaking of the fact Valeries worked at the CIA. Her role in getting Joe to Niger twice has not been the focus of investigations – yet.
UPDATE:
The list of people who knew about Plame working for the CIA is getting quite large! From the Kerry Campaign to most of NBC News to Victor Davis Hanson….
Amazing.
END UPDATE
Gen Paul Vallely has come forward and claimed Joe Wilson was talking about his CIA wife in the Fox News Green Room – a charge Wilson is denying with threat of legal action.
“This is slanderous,” Wilson wrote. “I never appeared on tv before at least July 2002 and only saw him maybe twice in the green room at FOX.
Well, when was Wilson possibly in the Green Room with Vallely? In reverse chronological order:
January 10th, 2003 (Vallely, Wilson). Wilson was on John Gibson’s show this day. Which is why Gibson has similar recollections to General Vallely. Vallely was on Cavuto which airs right before Gibson’s show.
November 18, 2002 (Vallely, Wilson). Vallely was scheduled for 1:10, Wilson was to be on after 3:00 PM.
October 1, 2003 (Vallely, Wilson). Wilson was on Fox and Friends in the morning, Vallely on Cavuto. Depending on when Vallely came in to tape his section they could have met up.
September 12, 2002 – they were on the same show at 3:00 PM.
August 20, 2002 (Vallely, Wilson). Wilson was on Greta and Vallely on Cavuto. Depending on when/if things were taped the could have run into each other.
Well, four good opportunities to run into Wilson in the Green Room. BTW, all the guests listed in the same days as these make for potential witnesses. Not to mention all the times Wilson was at Fox and other networks.
MAJOR UPDATE:
I cannot believe how many people are ready to say Joe Wilson himself outed his wife. Now, through a 3rd party recollection, Victor Davis Hanson also recalled Joe Wilson talking about his CIA wife in a Green Room. What a putz he and Fitzgerald both are. Hat Tip Academic Elephant.
Victor Davis Hanson said the same thing about Wilson telling him about his CIA wife in a greenroom meeting. Hanson has said he’s not going to pursue it, but the report is out there and it certainly seems to point to a pattern.
Now if you guys got a Democrat on record saying the same thing, THEN you’d have the sucker pinned. Until then, you have Vallely’s word against Wilson’s. No one is going to believe that a FOX News commentator knew this all along, only to reveal it to the media now, especially WND. I’m cynical, and this smells funny. I sure as hell hope they can back this up, because if this fails, Wilson is going to end up looking more credible than he deserves. This didn’t get anywhere when Clifford May claimed it, but with Wilson taking legal action, this might get interesting.
I just wouldn’t put too much faith in Vallely and WND, I don’t think anyone can pretend that they aren’t partisan in this.
Wilson already blew her cover when he used “Valerie Plame” all over the place, which connected his wife, Valerie Wilson, to her cover name, thus ruining it.
There’s a reason you get a cover name: so that it will never be connected to you as a real person. Wilson screwed alllll of that up long ago.
Great work here.
Now take a break and look at Pinkus WaPo article today.
DIA declassifies docs per Sen Levin’s request – Levin “not sure”
rest of Senate Intel comm. has seen this report – but SURE
that it was sent out to them plus NSC etc. (WaPo today)
Wonder what “slug mail” was used to give Levin/Pincus scoop
and spin. (more pre war info WRONG – duh!)
Same DIA that has taken away all of LT Col. Tony Shaffer’s security
clearances – with no appeal possible now. Captain Ed posted letter
from Shaffer’s attorney last week. No word since.
Arrest of Chinese L3 engineer and his wife (naturalized cititzens)
along with another couple here on visa. Top military secrets
passed to Chinese.
DIA????ABLE DANGER – did they make connection to this naturalized
citizen???? Has been passing secrets since 1990??
WaPo release of “secret prisons” CIA leak? or DIA leak??
Who are these people and what is Rumsfeld doing about them.
Hope he & GW are just waiting for air-tight cases for treason,
and just passing them more rope.
So far have seen no Rep Weldon comments. With SCOTUS hearings
put off to Jan 7th – Justice Committee has time to get to Able Danger
in Senate. Be great if this was planned move – and why GW smiled
when he said he was a bit dissapointed in delay of SCOTU nomination.
Actually, it is not taking a break – Pinkus, Wapo et al up to eyeballs
in all this.
Thanks for your work.
Seixon
I totally agree with your premise that this a he said/ she said on some respects BUT…Vallely is the perfect kind of person to do this and if you’ll notice Vallely hangs out …
“Vallely said, citing CIA colleagues (which included State and Military Colleagues too), that in addition to his conversations with Wilson, the ambassador was proud to introduce Plame at cocktail parties and other social events around Washington as his CIA wife.”
so I think it’s safe to assume that some of these folks will come out in support of Vallely, especially when Wilson starts slandering him…this group, seems to me at least, far more credible and harder to impeach
To all,
Mac Ranger predicted a lot of CIA and others would be coming out soon to start undermining Wilson and the Dems. When Fitzmas Fizzled with the indictments that allowed the doors to open up. This is a long term chess game. Wilson and the CIA’s last move started with the call for investigation and ended with the indictments.
It was a pathetically weak move. The challenging move is in play and may be week’s in coming out.
AJ—
I hope you are right, but Time is saying that Rove is on the way out.
“Karl Rove’s colleagues don’t know exactly when it will happen, but they are already laying out the reasons they will give for the departure of the man President George W. Bush dubbed the architect…several of the most important lawyers who deal with special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald said they saw more clues last week that Fitzgerald is continuing to look into the possibility of charging Rove with lying to investigators or the grand jury or both.”
The talking heads are discussing “cleaning house” on TV today.
When they met, in 1997, Wilson held a security clearance as political adviser to the general in charge of the U.S. Armed Forces European Command….. Valerie Wilson as consultant who traveled frequently overseas. …. A few months after delivering the twins in January 2000, Valerie Wilson “had a serious bout of postpartum depression and she’d had a terrible time getting help,”
By Richard Leiby and Dana Priest Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, October 8, 2003; Page A01
Joe had a Security Clearance in 99. Wesley Clark was the CINC. I would also wonder if Val lost her clearance during her difficulties…..
Anybody know what happen on this Drudge story? THU FEB 12, 2004 20:01:49 ET http://www.drudgereport.com/mattjk5.htm
OUT OF AFRICA: KERRY PREPARES RESPONSE TO MEDIA PROBE OF RELATIONSHIP
….. the woman fled to Africa, where she remains, the DRUDGE REPORT can reveal…. Kerry is scheduled to appear on IMUS IN THE MORNING on Friday. Later he is scheduled to join General Wesley Clark, who, in an off-the-record conversation with a dozen reporters earlier this week, plainly stated: “Kerry will implode over an intern issue.”….
AJ–
This is slightly off-topic, but I don’t know where to put it.
Maybe you will write about this.
Here is a new article about the Niger forgeries.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/article325155.ece
The article says that the Italian intelligence broker who was trying to sell the documents named Rocco Martino was even followed by the Italian military intelligence agency (SISMI) when he came to the USA but that the FBI was not informed.
I wonder what this Martino did in the US. I wonder who he talked to here. Maybe he showed the documents to prospective buyers.
I am only speculating, but it says this guy came to America with Italian spies following him. The Italians wanted to see what he was doing pretty badly. They didn’t even tell the FBI they were spying on their own guy and whoever he might contact.
The article says:
“The Sismi chief identified Mr Martino as the source of the forged documents in a closed Italian parliamentary committee meeting last week. He described Mr Martino as a former intelligence informer who had been “kicked out of the agency”. Both men have claimed that at the time he was hawking around the documents, Mr Martino was working for the French, a possible source of Britain’s “separate intelligence”. A senior French intelligence official declined to say whether Mr Martino had been a paid agent of France, The New York Times reported last week, but called General Pollari’s assertions that France disseminated the false documents “scandalous”.”
Another paper says that the FBI says that the documents were forged for financial reasons (not to provide a pretext for war) , but the FBI has not said who did the forgeries.
Here is the quote:
An FBI investigation “confirmed the documents to be fraudulent and concluded they were more likely part of a criminal scheme for financial gain,” FBI spokesman John Miller said Friday, describing the contents of the letter.
Miller did not say what led the FBI to its conclusion or identify the perpetrators of the hoax. ”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-5394048,00.html
I sort of wonder if the FBI might be going after the perpetrator of this hoax. This Martino did come to the US for some reason, and the Italians spied on him while he was here.
I wonder if the Italians have told the FBI what Martino did and who he talked to while he was in the US.
I wish the FBI would post something officially on its own site.
It is more reliable than what is told to a paper, I think.
Snapple,
I did post about the FBI comments here. I will look at the earlier independent article when I get a chance
Thanks, AJ
Please move my post to a better place if you wish.
The Independent article (Novemeber 6) is newer than the Guardian article (November 5).
Did anyone ever hear that this Martino was being tracked in America by SISMI? I thought that was something new. IT really caught my attention.
Snapple,
The Guardian article is getting big play on the Left Wing sites, with the conclusion that the Docs were handed off to either Michael Ladeen or Daniel Feith.
I wonder if they read us and wonder what is wrong with us. 🙂
Snapple,
The trip to the US in fall of 2001 is news – but means little. The Independent is a rabid leftwing paper, and all the allusions are one way here. The woman at the embassy is also new. Will see what I can find.
I posted about this on your FBI thread.
Don’t you wonder why this guy was running around in the US with Italian military intelligence right behind him?
I put my speculation on the FBI thread. But I have no particular expertise.
Sometimes those rabid leftwing papers are the best place to put important information. Who would believe it if it were on FOX News?
This is from Josh Micah Marshall, talking points memo (the group blog that LCJohnson contributes) who is always harping about Rocco….and it Joe Wilson favorite blog to point too
“…(The Italians were keeping a close eye on him. And through leaks to the press in Italy, they let it be known that Rocco had again gone to the US.)
But he came, spent several drama-filled or tragicomic days, and then left. And no one from the FBI or any other American law enforcement or intelligence agency made any attempt to contact him in any way. Nor have they done so since….”
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/003490.php
Here all RMartino posts by JMM
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/mt/mt-search.cgi?search=rocco&search.x=0&search.y=0
I hate it when my posts are riddled with typos. Sorry.
Mapes,
I am the king of typos. You may take my crown any day you wish!
Wow, so Joshua Marshall and CBS were working Martino all the way back in June 2004 to cement their story to take down Bush in September. Nice. Too bad Rathergate got in the way…
Keep an eye on the French connection folks… Look at the SSCI report… Look at the French connections there…….. It’s looking very interesting to say the least!
AJ
I know that RedState is on you naughty list, but here come the West Point Veterans for Truth!
“…WEST POINT RALLIES AGAINST WILSON.
Lt. General Tom McInerney, USAF (ret), West Point ’59, will join his colleague Maj. General Paul Vallely, USA (ret), West Point ’61, on my show Monday 7 November (1005 pm Eastern Time on ABC Radio Network) to repeat and expand upon Vallely’s memory that Joe Wilson more than once in 2002 in the green room at Fox New Channel in Washington D.C. boasted about his wife the “CIA desk officer.” McInerney has the same memory and more, since both he and Vallely were on FNC between 150 and 200 times in 2002 each.
You will recall that Vallely received a threatening e-mail from Wilson’s attorney Christopher Wolf on Saturday 5 November, demanding Vallely retract his remarks on my show Thursday November 3, and to WorldNetDaly.com on Friday November 4. Vallely has not such intention.
Included in the threatening e-mail was an attached e-mail from Wilson himself, calling Vallely’s remarks “slanderous.”
Also, I have written my regular correspondent Victor Davis Hanson to ask after his reported memories of Wilson boasting to him in a green room meeting that Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA…
…n brief, why did Fitzgerald not investigate Wilson for the same concerns he investigated Libby and Rove and others?
Time for Fitzgerald to start again? New grand jury? Put Wilson under oath along with Vallely and McInerney and all others who remember Wilson’s boasting of his wife as a “CIA desk officer” prior to Novak’s publication?
For now: Monday November 7, 1005 pm Eastern Time, West Point rallies against Joe Wilson. Who is more credible, two decorated combat heroes with a combined five stars and nearly one hundred years living with their oath to defend the Constitution – or Joe Wilson”?
http://john-batchelor.redstate.org/story/2005/11/6/235210/851
Dear Mary Mapes,
You quoted this Josh Marshall BELITTLING the significance of Martino’s “drama-filled/tragicomic” trip to the US. Maybe this is because Marshall is hoping to draw away interest from Martino’s American sojourn:
[Rocco Martino] “came, spent several drama-filled or tragicomic days, and then left. And no one from the FBI or any other American law enforcement or intelligence agency made any attempt to contact him in any way. Nor have they done so since….â€
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/003490.php
First, how would this writer know if American law enforcement contacted him or not. Does the FBI take Josh Marshall into their confidence? And if you were trying to watch what someone is up to, you would not contact them. You would let them go about their business.
And second, the Italians [our friends] say they were watching Martino. Martino must have had a reason to come to the US. Maybe the Italians know what he was up to and who he met. And maybe the Italians told the Special Prosecutor what they learned.
“Silvio Berlusconi’s government has admitted that agents of Sismi, the Italian military intelligence service, tracked the movements in London of Rocco Martino, an ex-informer, in the autumn of 2001. It did not say whether the British authorities were informed, but admitted that Mr Martino was also followed by Sismi in the US, without the knowledge of the FBI.†http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/article325155.ece
Personally, I think this is quite an admission. The Italian military intelligence is probably supposed to tell the FBI before they follow Italians in America, but they admit they didn’t. So maybe it was pretty sensitive. And it was deftly slipped into a left wing paper, as someone noted, so it may have more credibility in some circles than FOX News.
But I am no expert, don’t work in the intelligence field, and I haven’t followed this arcane topic for long. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn EXPRESS last night!
Snapple
First, how would this writer know if American law enforcement contacted him or not. Does the FBI take Josh Marshall into their confidence? And if you were trying to watch what someone is up to, you would not contact them. You would let them go about their business.
I am glad you pointed this out, because like you I thought it was weird that Marshall would know whether or not FBI spoke to the fella (and like you, I was not vexed that he was not spoken to (if he was or not)…I think it would be stupid taking this guys word at face value, Rocco on face value does not seem to be an up and up guy
Which is weird too, why would Marshall want to trust this guy so much. Seixon (blog to the side) has done some research about this (JMM) …Seixon might have answers as to why JMM seems to know so much.
(P.S. that was the reason I posted it…I thought it was odd of Marshall)