Apr 28 2009
Conservatives Bailing The Ocean Into Their Sinking Ship
 
Boy, am I glad I left the conservative fevered swamps when I did. Talk about self destructing! As I posted on earlier, in response to the political center dumping conservatives into oblivion Jim DeMint made the comment he would rather be a top fish in a tiny pond than actually lead this great nation into the future:
DeMint says he would rather have 30 Republicans in the Senate who really believe in principles of limited government, free markets, free people, than. . .that don’t have a set of beliefs.â€
Ahh, the lovely sound of tolerance and respect for fellow Americans. I don’t think DeMint and his paltry band of ‘true conservatives’ get it yet. No one would be upset if he was part of an impotent and irrelevant ban of 30 has beens in the Senate either!
And 30 seems to be a good number to shoot for. Right now it is 60-40 (assuming Franken pulls off his mystical vote counting tricks), but if the far right keep up on their witch hunt of centrist, then 7o is only 10 seats away. Rush Limbaugh has proposed another candidate to be shown the door of the failed right wing club house:
Conservative host Rush Limbaugh said Tuesday he isn’t sorry to see Arlen Specter leave the GOP — and that many Republicans wish the Pennsylvania senator would take a few others with him when he goes.
“A lot of people say, ‘Well, Specter, take [Sen. John] McCain with you. And his daughter [Meghan]. Take McCain and his daughter with you if you’re gonna…” he told listeners, dissolving in laughter.
“…..It’s ultimately good. You’re weeding out people who aren’t really Republicans,” he said.
No, they weeding out the survivors so the only ones left will be the politically doomed. Limabaugh and his ilk seem more and more like those doomed survivors on the Poseidon Adventure who head the wrong way to rescue, certain of their superior intelligence and purpose. They certainly on a rapidly sinking ship.
Anyway, then there are the two ladies from Maine, who are only slightly less despised by the conservative purists than Specter was. And the comments they are making spell more disaster for the right:
Both Republican senators from Maine said Tuesday that the GOP must change its ways following Sen. Arlen Specter’s (Pa.) decision to switch parties.
…
Collins called Specter’s decision “unfortunate for our party and our country,†and acknowledged that Democratic leaders have long been trying to persuade her to change parties.
“When you’re a moderate Republican, every year there’s someone from the other side who makes an overture,†she said. “But that’s not something I would ever consider doing.
“But I do think our party needs to make clear that centrists are welcome. Sometimes that message is not sent as clearly as it should be.â€
Well they are not wanted, as the lunatic fringe has made perfectly clear. And let’s be clear here, Specter was forced out by the Toomey challenge. If the GOP tent hadn’t shrunk to the size of a pup tent, the GOP primary would not be a threat to Specter’s desires to lead this nation and be an influential force in where it goes. He is thinking state and country first, Party is a distant 3rd were it belongs. If the far right go after Collins, she will have no choice – either she leaves the GOP or she watches a Democrat take out whoever the far right elect in the primary.
Snowe also has had some pointed words for the dying conservative movement:
“I’ve always been deeply concerned about the views of the Republican Party nationally in terms of their exclusionary policies and views towards moderate Republicans,” said Snowe, who has been approached, she said, by Democrats in the past about switching parties.
Specter’s switch to the Democratic Party “underscores the blunt reality” that the GOP is not a welcome place for moderates, she said.
Snowe goes onto point out that conservatives think they are the only ones with a hold on certain issues, but what they are doing in their purity putsche is simply losing control of these issues to more sane heads. Here is Snowe’s list of ‘principles’ or ‘beliefs’ people like DeMint don’t think exist outside their echo chambers:
“I believe in the traditional tenets of the Republican Party: strong national defense, fiscal responsibility, individual opportunity. I haven’t abandoned those principles that have been the essence of the Republican Party. I think the Republican Party has abandoned those principles.
Agreed. The far right are not the only ones who respect and back our military (take it from a proud father of a US Marine, son of a WW II Navy veteran). Lots of people want limited government, lower taxes, free markets. Many people believe DC is bloated and out of control and useless. Many people believe in the sanctity of life. Half or more are not in the GOP, are not impressed with the far right, are not supporting the GOP. They are centrists who decide which party wins elections.
What the conservative movement needs is to stop being a ridiculous spectacle of ineptitude – case in point:
Bachmann, speaking on Pajamas TV, noted: “I find it interesting that it was back in the 1970s that the swine flu broke out then under another Democrat president Jimmy Carter. And I’m not blaming this on President Obama, I just think it’s an interesting coincidence.”
The 1976 swine flu scare happened on Gerald Ford’s watch.
We checked Wikipedia.
Ford was a Republican.
What a joke. How about those crazy Birthers and their claims Obama is not American? How about those crazy claims that DHS is abandoning its mission to stop threats against this nation and are instead monitoring Michelle Malkin and her fellow travellers. How about those crazy Ayrabs trying to by an interest in a company that does port operations (not security)?
Anyway, if they can push out Snowe, Collins, McCain that gets them down to 37. Many think Lindsay Graham is RINO, as well as Kay Baily Hutchison. That gets you to 35! DeMint seems to have a feasible plan in mind.
How many more dumb stunts are we going to have to suffer through?
AJ’s mention of Michele Bachmann coincidentally illustrates just how the media selectively (mis) uses its power, in this case likely aided by left-leaning activists, to shape people’s perceptions to be at odds with reality: Via Powerline:
“Neither party has enough to make a 50% majority to win national elections. It is that 25% in the middle that makes the difference either way.”
To put this another way, I consider my self more to the center. The party that kisses my butt ( and the rest of the center ) wins. Neither party can win without us.
Kei,
Pretty simple. Straighten up, show respect and help build an opposition to Obama’s insanity. The opposition just can’t be on their terms and preferences alone.
When the ‘true conservatives’ (what’s left of them) can become respectful partners in finding common ground and stop dictating from the pretend moral superiority, they have a chance at coming back.
Thanks for the compliment Toes192.
AJ,
‘True conservatives’ as you put it are respectful, and for that matter so are the ‘so called moderates/centrists’. It’s when each group tries to shove the differences between the two down each others’ throats that the disrespect from both camps pops up. I contend that the centrists are doing the exact same thing as the ‘true conservatives’ are doing. Preaching from their pretend moral high ground.
Each side won’t budge to the other, which is why we find ourselves where we are today.
Richmonder81,
Does your moniker mean your from Richmond VA?
Centrists did not start the purity wars – they were the victims. And now they are fighting back. Get over it. We are not spineless, squishy or confused. We have very strong principles, they just don’t extend to the extremes.
The far right wanted this civil war (and they are the ones who call themselves ‘true conservatives’ – i did not make that up). What they did not expect is a fight for the heart and soul of where this nation needs to go. Big mistake on their part.
While the Dems are on a course to flame out on the economy, they can also pivot and save themselves by doing a Sister Soldjah act on their liberal wing. Obama can pivot, and more centrist dems can take control of the policy debates.
Don’t be so naive as to think a screw up means the center comes back to the right. I means no such thing. The right is stubbornly refusing to allow for debate and compromise. The Democrats don’t need to be so rigid. The center influenced conservatism for decades, it can do the same to the democrats.
AJ,
Yes, I’m from Richmond VA, so it’s nice to have a fellow Virginian to talk to, even if you are from Northern Virginia. 😉
I’m not naive by any stretch of the imagination. I agree, the hard core conservatives are not willing to compromise at all. That’s unfortunate, because unless 100% of the country agrees with you, which is impossible, then you’ll always have to compromise.
I also don’t believe that centrists are spineless or confused as many seem to think. Some are, no doubt, but not the vast majority. But heck, you could say that for some of those on the extremes as well.
You said that true conservatives started this. Fine, then why have centrists now taken up the reigns as well? Centrists have had somewhat of a “it’s not us, it’s them” attitude and it has been growing over the last few years. If it was so bad for conservatives to do to centrists, then why fight back using the same tactics that the centrists deplore so much?
I want to be very clear in my statements. I have no problems with the centrists or for that matter the more conservative view points. I understand where each group is coming from and each have very valid points. What I don’t appreciate is that while both groups are scapegoating the other as to why the Republican party has declined, the liberals, lead by the Obama Administration, are running the country into the ground.
We need to settle our policy differences in the arena of ideas not through emotional conflict. That’s what liberals do. We’re better than that.
According to the New York Times, we Republicans are having a debate “over how to rebuild the party in the wake of Senator Arlen Specter’s departure.”
Just like how the Democrats had to rebuild their party after Ben Nighthorse Campbell switched parties. You remember that, don’t you?
If memory serves, the Dems internalized the lesson implicit in Campbell’s switch, promptly moderated all of their liberal positions, and were swept back into power as the party of moderation.
Duh.
AJ,
wow that is the strangest ‘argument’ you made just above. Don’t take this personal, I’m just commenting on what you said.
you may be the only ‘moderate’ that I read that gives a damn enough to state an opinion, most of them are totally uninformed and are the type that answer the question “who is the vice president? with a ‘duh, I don’t know’.
“Centrists did not start the purity wars We are not spineless, squishy or confused. ”
I’ll admit I don’t know the difference, if any, between a ‘centrist’ and a ‘moderate’ but I do know that the vast majority of people that describe themselves as moderate do so because they don’t know enough about politics to actually have an opinion and they sway with what they ‘hear’. they are not spineless, squishy or confused, just indifferent and uninformed. (reiterating, I said you are the exception)
“We have very strong principles, they just don’t extend to the extremes.”
what? give me an example of a ‘strong principle’ that is not extreme. I’m not talking a middle of the road principle or a principle, I’m talking a ‘strong’ principle. I think you will find that many people on the ‘far right’ would find your ‘strong’ principles to be very ‘extreme’ It’s only a matter of definition and who is doing the defining.
From my point of view, if I feel ‘strongly’ about a principle, I’m willing to defend it. It seems that if I defend my principle you are willing to define that as ‘extreme’. Maybe the opposite of an extreme position is an extreme position? you think?
“The far right wanted this civil war (and they are the ones who call themselves ‘true conservatives’ “
seems as if this has boiled down to semantics. For example, I think I am a ‘conservative’. I’m not sure if I would call it ‘true’ because someone might label me as ‘far right’, which it seems that some want to think is a ‘bad’ thing. would it be accurate, for example, to call you a ‘true’ moderate? Does that make you a ‘far middle’ extremist? I’m not sure about all the labels.
I believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I don’t go to church, I think abortions are ok is ‘some’ cases. I think people should be free to believe what they want to believe. I don’t care if they think like I do or not. That’s what the country is all about. I think Obama is a socialist (one of them labels that don’t mean much) and is hell bent on re-making the USA.
What they did not expect is a fight for the heart and soul of where this nation needs to go. Big mistake on their part.
I think it was not a ‘civil’ war they wanted, I think it was that they wanted conservatives to be conservative. Not like Specter.
While the Dems are on a course to flame out on the economy, they can also pivot and save themselves by doing a Sister Soldjah act on their liberal wing. Obama can pivot, and more centrist dems can take control of the policy debates.
I agree about the Dems flaming out, I said that earlier, but why do you think the dems can pivot and save themselves but you seem to feel as if there is no hope for the evil right wingers?
“Obama can pivot and more centrist dems” why should they? They’re in the drivers street. The very very far left has taken over, something you say the far right can’t do. Why? because they (the very far left)got fed up with what was going on, and did something about it. I’m gonna contend the country is gonna get very sick of the direction very quickly and veer back again toward the opposite. I’m not sure how far.
Don’t be so naive as to think a screw up means the center comes back to the right. I means no such thing. The right is stubbornly refusing to allow for debate and compromise.
Actually, I pretty much agree with that. It most likely means the ‘far left’ comes back toward the center. The far lefties won’t give up their principles and the far righties won’t either. The battle will be in the middle, exactly where it’s always been. Surely you don’t mean to imply that the left ‘is willing to debate and compromise’, do you?
The Democrats don’t need to be so rigid. The center influenced conservatism for decades, it can do the same to the democrats.
The socialists and progressives will remain ‘far left, the conservatiives will remain right, the ‘true conservatives’, far right and the Dems and Repubs will remain in the middle and sway with the wind.
Actually, I think that’s a good thing. Each side should present the extremes and the vast majority should decide how far each way the middle should be. Do I think both ends are extreme? well, actually that what the ‘ends’ should be. The middle will never go ‘all the way’ toward either extreme. That doesn’t mean anyone is ‘wrong’ to hold the position, but they should be realistic enough to realize that they will have very few followers that will be 100% supportive of those extreme views.
My answer to many of the questions about why you bash the conservatives; because you align yourself more ‘toward’ the right side and you see where and why they are going wrong, and you don’t like them going wrong, and it matters.
But that is only my opinion and I am sometimes wrong in my opinion.
I don’t claim to be 100% right for the last 4 years with the exception of 2006 and 2008. (just kidding)
Last time around, Arlen Specter needed Governor Ed Rendell (D-PA) to organize a Limbaugh-like “Operation Chaos” (mind you this was before there was an “Operation Chaos”) by getting Democrats to re-register as Republicans for the primary, then switch back before the general election.
And those 200,000 Republicans that left the party that I keep reading about … Exactly how many of those were “dittoheads” involved in “Operation Chaos” that forgot to re-register after the election ? There is isn’t exactly a burning need to re-register .. at least not till the next primary.
gary1son @10:01 pm
My God. Someone finally gets it. MSM. But it is not enough to identify the problem. Somebody has to start getting a FIX on it. Tony Snowe (as much as I liked him) never laid a glove on it. I still think the only…………..only……………..fix has to come from our Congress Pugs. As one of the 25 Bush supporters, I will even agree that this was his biggest mistake. But he was the target and I think he misunderstood this thing like almost everyone else that I read.
You gave a perfect example with Palin. This is MSM at it’s best.
It does not matter that Palin attracted the thousands (not McCain). MSM. Her name is mush with thousands of people who do not even watch.
You are correct when you state it is The View to SNL(please add GMA). It is NOT the editorials. It is not the books. It is not the ‘news’. I still read people that do not understand this problem making fun of people who watch TV. I have soldiered on. O’Reilly thinks he has finally identified it as NBC. Hey Bill, it use to be their first daily hammer and where the Plamegame rooted. That bunch even backed Tim into a corner so that he lied to protect them. But they were still babies at this point. Now they are full-fledged enemies.
Anyone watch that dumb TV set and that roomful of slobbering gawkers? Listen up. The One chose FREE TV to deliver his message to the paperboys.
Republican Congressmen are the only people on the planet that can combat this enemy because they can get FREE TV. The first problem is to get voters. They have to call names and point fingers (take a cue from The One). Somebody better learn to communicate with people who are not political junkies. Quit flying over their heads. This is what was so wrong with McCain’s campaign. Palin understood this. He didn’t. The MSM has cut her up and spit out the pieces.
Richmonder81,
Well welcome fellow Virginian! I suffer through my NOVA location. When I grew up here it was more like the rest of the state.
The civil war was meant to fight for the control of the future of conservatism. So the centrists are fighting for the future they believe in.
But not being tied to any party means we can influence whoever is in power as long as they recognize they have power because of an alliance with centrists and not because centrists think they are all knowing.
Obama has extended some very important Bush policies, much to my surprise and pleasure. I don’t care who gets credit, just as long as we do the right thing.
Delaying our withdrawal from Iraq until it is stable, beefing up forces in Afghanistan, targeting AQ and Taliban hideouts in Pakistan, standing by the NSA-FISA fixes that came after 9-11 – all things I believe are steps on the right path. Obama deserves support for these decisions so as to keep him from caving into the liberal wingnuts who would undo all our past efforts. That is having principles which transcends party of conservative BS.
Obama has done really dumb things: closing GITMO, spending us into oblivion, releasing the interrogation memos. By respecting his right choices one gets more credibility to criticize – but the far right criticizes everything as if Obama is the second coming of Hitler. It’s pathetic.
I applaud his general outline on comprehensive immigration reform (close enough to the Bush-McCain version), so I won’t waste time and energy fighting that.
He and the dems are all wrong on Tax & Trade, nationalized health care embryonic stem cells, etc. But again, by being reasonable and recognizing his good decisions I think we centrists gain credibility to influence and hopefully stopping these plans.
The purists, who would rather have an impotent 30 echo-chamber senators who do nothing but whine from the back bench will have no such opportunity to influence the direction of the country. This is what Specter, Snowe, Collins and McCain understand. You cannot be seen as being knee jerk, over the top negative on every little thing. Destroys the credibility, eliminates the chance for dialogue, shuts down avenues for creating coalitions to change the direction.
The true conservatives are happy to insult from the outside. I and many others are not. Guess who gets to make change?
One more thing and then if you get lucky, maybe I will disappear with Cheney. LIVID is the only word to describe my reaction to The One.
This is the perfect example of how they run circles around Pugs.
We have a President that voted for LATE term abortions standing in front of the world and proclaiming our last President a Torturer. He lectures on morals.
This same man attended an ANTI-AMERICAN, HATE, RACIST church for TWENTY years and he has the gall to talk about MORALS.
Why am I not seeing Pug Senators on TV this morning calling him an immoral ***? Someone want to combat this chit? Then get off your MORAL high horses. What the **** is wrong with all of you? I am only a 99%er on the abortion issue and it takes someone like me to scream about MORALS? Who exactly is the Decider of these things? McCain because he was tortured? Obama because he recently got religion? MSM?
President Bush was the most decent man in that office in my lifetime and you will just sit back and let them label him a Torturer? And they wonder why they lose elections.
Okay, I lied……another post. I do not know if McCain’s bill was good or not but anything was better than nada. I am usually a Reagan type. Give me the 75% versus 0. My beef with him was the damage he did to this country about torture. Why do you think O was quoting him last night? My beef with him was his support for Kerry (yes, he was almost tempted into VP). My current beef is the damage he has deliberately inflicted on Palin. I just hope she understands where it came from. I did not sit home. I voted for him. It’s that % thing.
AJ,
I understand and agree with pretty much all you are saying, however, please don’t lump Spector in with the others. He’s always been in it for himself. His recent jump shows that in the plainest light. It was nothing more than political self-preservation that he left.
There are a lot of conservatives who are having knee-jerk reactions to anything the dems or Obama proposes and I agree, those generally aren’t helpful. Passions are still running extremely high right now on the right. They are very concerned about the direction the country is headed in right now, as we all are.
They are frustrated and think that its the moderates who put us here, when in actuality its the lack of principled politicians (both moderate Republicans and the more conservative Republicans).
I, myself, am a very conservative guy and have not appreciated your broad assessment of the conservative movement. I very much enjoy the Rush Limbaugh’s of the world.
There are a lot of things about the ‘centrists’ that I don’t care for. Right now a lot of them are pulling the ‘holier than thou’ attitude and it really rubs me the wrong way.
That being said, I know there are those on the more conservative side of the wing that are the exact same way. Again, I’d have to be blind and deaf or intellectually dishonest not to notice. A lot of those folks believe they would have to sacrifice their principles for compromise, which is not the case at all. In reality, I think our principles are pretty much the same, it’s just the implementation of those principles into policy where the disagreements/arguments arise.
Trust me, in the end cooler heads will prevail. That’s why everyone needs to take a chill pill. Trying to fight out policy differences now will only lead to more ranting and raving on both sides of the centrist/conservative debate and not accomplish anything.
Everyone involved would also be wise to remember to not paint in such broad stokes. Generalizations about conservatives or moderates will just add fuel to the fire.
I don’t want to sound like I’m trying to pick on you AJ, because that’s not my intention. I very much enjoy your website and your in depth analysis on the various issues. I know frustration is reigning supreme right now, which is…well…frustrating. Luckily we still have plenty of time before midterm elections next year to all calm down and start thinking straight again.
On a different subject, I hope you are planning on covering the Virginia elections this year. I’m very optimistic about McDonnell’s chances this November, as well as recapturing the state senate.
I disagree with AJ’s “purist” line also. However, it should be noted that the AJ’s of the world are in the majority now:
Latest PEW poll of party identification:
Dems 35%
Repubs 23%
Ind 36%
Last five months
Dems 33%
Repubs 22%
Ind 39%
It is a poll of “adults” not “registered voters”; but still…..
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1207/republican-party-identification-slips-nationwide-pennsylvania-specter-switch