Jun 10 2009
Another Extremist Goes Violent
Update: Seems this nutter related with both fringes, since we now learn he is a 9-11 truther as well:
Holocaust Museum shooter von Brunn a 9/11 ‘truther’ who hated ‘neo-cons’, Bush, McCain
Wonder what drew this guy to the extreme fringes? What did he find he could relate to? Hard to tell, since both extremes tended to hate Bush. - end update
Sometimes people are so extreme you just can’t place them on the left or right fringes. But if I was forced to put the latest racist, holocaust denier to go nuts and start shooting people onto one fringe or the other I would have to say he is certainly opposed to liberal policies and beliefs:
An 89-year-old white supremacist and Holocaust denier opened fire in Washington’s Holocaust Museum today, wounding at least one before being shot in the head by security officers.
…
He is clearly a Holocaust denier – a belief decried by Mr Obama during his speech to the Muslim world in Cairo last week. Von Brunn bemoans that “Jews control all important sources of information”, and claims that there is a Jewish conspiracy to destroy the white gene pool. He also wrote: “America is a Third-World racial garbage-dump – stupid, ignorant, dead broke, and terminal. Whites LOVE their Enemies. Prepare to die, Whitey.” One of heroes he cites is World War II Real Admiral John Crommelin, a notorious anti-Semite who later ran for governor of Alabama.
Let me be clear, this whack job is not a conservative, nor would anyone on the right agree with his views, and definitely not his actions.
With that said, if I was working for DHS and was asked to place him on one extreme ‘wing’ or the other, he would have to go to the right side of the ledger. Which is why the drama queens on the right who felt the DHS report was an attack on law abiding conservatives were being totally ridiculous in pretending our security resources where targeting. This is another example of violent extremists which the DHS is rightfully concerned about, and SHOULD BE monitoring and alerting local law enforcement to be on the lookout for.
Sadly, I don’t think this will be the last (left or right). The rhetoric has become so unnecessarily heated between left and right that these whack jobs think the time is now to become the hero they always fantasized they would be. This is why responsible people keep their debates cool headed and reasonable.
44 Responses to “Another Extremist Goes Violent”
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Have you seen this AJ?
In a story by Stephen F. Hayes in the Weekly Standard, The Obama Administration has ordered the FBI and CIA to give terrorists anywhere in the world the Rights of an American Citizen, they must be read their Miranda rights.
No wonder we no longer call it the “war” on terror. We are conducting law enforcement on foreign soil. Can anyone answer this question? By what power do we have the right to conduct law enforcement operations on foreign soil? Does that mean that the UN can come into the United States and pick up Bush for torture? Just asking!
AJ you are a very intellegent man but you must be losing your mind. Who are the most staunch supporters of Isreal? Liberals? We know thats not true. Look at Obama’s emerging policy on Isreal. Is that a pro Isreal stance? Give me a break. The Conservative Republicans (right-wingers) are the pro Isreal political faction in this country. Case closed.
BTW- Many mMuslims and Iranian’s are Holocaust deniers, are they Right Wing Conservatives. Were all Muslims put on the DHS list? Why are you defending a list that the DHS head Napliatano and the Obama Administration would not defend? What is going on with you??
“Let me be clear, this whack job is not a conservative, nor would anyone on the right agree with his views, and definitely not his actions.”
It’s a shame you could haven’t used that simple logic with the left, and the Dr. Tiller shooter.
Oh for Heavans sake AJ. The man was born in 1920, he is probably senile. And no one ever said that a white supremicist should not be looked at by the DHS.
I mean come on, the staunchest supporters of Israel in the United States are conservative Republicans.
The truth is when it comes to hating the Jews, the extreme left and the extreme right actually have a lot in common.
But the DHS report you keep going on about was far too general to be useful. And they admitted as much and promised to do it over again.
Guy:
I think the murder of Tiller was a bad bad thing and I hope the man who did it never sees the light of day again.
But he is not representative of the millions of Americans who are pro life. No more than Kos screaming Screw em about dead Americans in Fallujah is representative of everyone who did not support the war in Iraq.
In fact this guy who shot the guard at the Holocaust Museum tried a similar attack on the Federal Reserve in 1981. He was well known to authorities long before that silly DHS report was ever wriiten and then withdrawn.
This is part of what Ed Morrisey had to say about this:
Yet again, we have a despicable attack based on hatred and political extremism, the third such attack in two weeks to result in fatalities. Doubtless many people will try to find ways to score political points, like the e-mailer who waited a whole 20 minutes to blame conservatives for dismissing the DHS report on right-wing extremism for this tragedy. To that, I’d respond that our criticism was that the DHS report didn’t focus on known, specific threats, instead making generalized threats about abortion opponents and other vague and broad generalizations about conservative issues. In fact, it never mentioned Holocaust denial at all, nor did it mention anti-semitism at all [see Update V below], either; those terms don’t appear at all in the report. And despite being well-known as a threat since the 1980s, the DHS never bothered to identify von Brunn or his organization as a specific threat in the report — which, again, was the heart of our criticism.
Argh, I screwed that up. What I meant was:
“Let me be clear, this whack job is not a conservative, nor would anyone on the right agree with his views, and definitely not his actions.”
It’s a shame you could haven’t used that simple logic with the left, and the Muslim that shot the army recruiter.
This guy was a Truther too and he hated neocons Guy, maybe he is one of yours.
You don’t even need to second guess how the nutroots are spinning this incident
Merlin:
No doubt. However, they did not have any problem ignoring Jeremiah Wright and his rants about Jews. Somehow Obama was able to sit through those for 20 years. In fact if anyone deserves to be on a watch list with the DHS, it might be the guy screaming God Damn America!
Terrye:
Classy as always. So, by your logic, someone who speaks badly about America is more dangerous than someone who actually goes around shooting other people?
Nice to know you have your priorities straight.
Not sure I really get how you put this killer on the right. In his previous crime spree, he went after the Federal Reserve, hardly a left wing organization. Plus I understand from other news reports that he was into the 9/11 conspiracies and that puts him with the wacko left. Basically he was an equal opportunity hater and all around nut.
No government report, whatever its purpose, is going to stop the lone gunman who wakes up one morning and decides it’s a good day for killing, whatever his motives or supposed political leanings. And in the last few weeks we’ve seen that law enforcement was very well aware in advance that a particular person could be a problem. They knew it with the abortion doctor’s killer and the Muslim convert who killed the Army private and with this 89 year old man today. They didn’t need the DHS report for that. And there’s not a thing they really could have done to stop any of these psychos. Patting yourself on the back about how you were right in defending the report actually makes you look a little silly in light of what’s happened the last few weeks.
I’ve seen comments elsewhere that the DHS document did not include “anti-semite” groups, which sort of left this guy in the ignored fringes.
This is exactly why the Leftist who wrote that part of the DHS report did it. So the Left could smear the entire Right every time some nut went on a shooting spree (which is bound to happen occasionally in a country of 300 million people). It’s basically an indirect way for the Left to try and intimidate anyone who dares to criticize Obama into silence.
OK. Who wants to claim this guy ??? ‘Execute’ Skeptics! Shock Call To Action: ‘At what point do we jail or execute global warming deniers’ — ‘Shouldn’t we start punishing them now?’
“Extremists” always go violent. That’s how they get the name “extremist”.
AJ: I’m not so sure it’s as cut & dried as you think, in terms of what side of the Political Spectrum this nutbag is actually on.
Nor is it “given”, that White Supremecists are “rightwing”, as a lot of people, and the MSM automatically assume.
White Supremecists are Racists, that’s true, and mainly Anti-Semitic, but so was Hitler, and he was NOT “Rightwing”; he was a Leftwing Socialist as we all know.
“White Supremecists” in this country are Anti-Semitic, Anti-Black, Anti-Neocon (a codeword for “Jews”); they are Anti-Democracy, Anti-Capitalism, Anti-World Trade, Anti-immigration, EXTREME “Nationalists”; etc. In those regards, they have more in common with Hitler and the Nazis, than they have ever had with the “Rightwing”.
Hitler was an Extreme German “Nationalist”, and a Racist, obviously, agains Jews, against Blacks (Jesse Owens, anyone?), and what people tend to forget, against SLAVS i.e. the Russians, as well! That’s why he attacked them, he HATED Slavs.
People on the Left have used Hitler’s attack on Stalin/the Russians/The Slaves, for 60 years, to misrepresent what really went on there; they say because Hitler attacked the Communist Russians(who were leftwing), that made Hitler “rightwing”!
No, in fact, Hitler was a Leftwing Racist Socialist Fascist, who hated Slavs, and attacked the Russians who were even more to the Left than he; but that didn’t make Hitler “Rightwing”.
The Left in this country, has misrepresented this again, for over 60 years, in order to rewrite and revise history, and give cover to their own Appalling History of Racism.
It was the Left in this country, embodied in the Democratic Party, that founded the KKK (Nathan Bedford Forest was a Democrat); it was the Democratic Party, that nutured, implemented, and extended Jim Crow, and made Reconstruction a living Hell for Blacks in this country. It was the so-called “Radical Republicans”, in Tennesee, Arkansas & Texas, that stood up for the Black Freedmen, and in many cases, actually went to war against the KKK to protect Blacks during Reconstruction!
Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, was a Registered REPUBLICAN, by the way.
80% of the Republican Party, voted for the Civil Rights Act in 1964, 80%+ of the Democratic Party, voted AGAINST it!
It was the Republican Party that passed the Civil Rights Act, NOT “LBJ” as popular fiction, put forth by Hillary Clinton and Barack HUSSEIN Obama (PBUH)(SWT)(SAW) among others, like to profess.
John F. Kennedy himself, as a Democratic Congressman, voted AGAINST the 1957 Civil Rights Act, in lock step with his Democratic Collegues, when President Eisenhower tried to get is passed!
Something the Liberal Left goes apoplectic about, when you prove it to them!
The only member of the KKK, currently serving in the US Senate or Congress, as we all know, is Senator Robert “KKK” Byrd, (D) from West Virginia!
The only former President, who was a Govenor of a Southern State, to sign a law making a State Holiday of Confederate President Jefferson Davis’ Birthday, was Bill Clinton by they way, NOT George W. Bush, as most incorrectly assume.
Clinton also has a brother, infamously caught on tape, using the “N” word DOZENS of times, and the Left never once castigated Clinton himself for it; but can you imagine if it had been Bush’s Brother? Not to even mention Robert “KKK” Byrd being caught on Videotape, TWICE, in the past 15 years, using the “N”-word liberally, and never being called to task for it!
Or Hillary’s use of the term you “Damn Jews”; when she got angry at one of her supporters; again, completely ignored by the Left!
Anyway, here’s some interesting analysis on the currect topic, that I think may be of interest to you:
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-722-Conservative-Politics-Examiner~y2009m6d10-Holocaust-Museum-shooter-von-Brunn-a-911-truther-who-hated-neocons-Bush-McCain
This jives with my own personal research on White Supremecists, and I think it’s something you should seriously take a look at!
PS: another reason Hitler hated the Russians, is because they were “Communists”, and as far as he was concerned, the Communist party was controlled by JEWS: i.e. Karl Marx, Leon Trotsky, etc., were Jewish.
And he hated “Capitalism”; because it was controlled by the JEWS as well, such as the Rockefellers, etc.
Unlike the good Socialists/Fascists in Germany, like Hitler; he was bound and determined to not let the Jews control the country/movement.
“This is exactly why the Leftist who wrote that part of the DHS report did it. So the Left could smear the entire Right every time some nut went on a shooting spree”
Thanks for pointing this out – however if they try to resurrect this ‘warning” they have one problem…
Seems like they should have released the report in like 1945 since that is about when this guy would have been getting out of the army, if was ever in it. Maybe the fact that HE IS 89 YEARS OLD means this variety of white supremacist is DYING OUT. We can hope and pray – maybe we should be on the look out for more old farts who are bigots and now feel it is safe to risk death or arrest. If this guy lives and goes to trial and gets life – it could only mean 10 years MAX.
By the way – he hated Christians and Bill O’Reilly. Sounds like he is hard to peg. He is just a guy who is sick and filled to the brim with sludge – hate hate hate.
Guy:
No actually my point was that we are supposed to believe that somehow or other conservatives are responsible for the things that extremists do, and that goes for conservatives who have never hurt anyone. That report was very general and included people who appose abortion and veterans as examples of people to watch.
Meanwhile a guy like Kos can scream screw em when other Americans actually do die, and Democrats do not even feel the need to seperate themselves from his site. Using the logic of the DHS supporters Kos is responsible for the Muslim shooting the soldier in Arkansas.
And that would be silly wouldn’t it?
AJ:
This guy is not a right wing extremist, he is not any kind of wing. He is nuts.
He hates Bush and O’Reilley and neo cons and Republicans and Christians and Jews and the Federal Reserve Board. He belongs in his own category of nut case and no one else should be held responsible for the actions of a man who has been this disturbed for this long. If anything I wonder how it is he was not locked up in a hospital somewhere.
Dale,
This one is anything but ‘clear’. I was simply noting again that the DHS had some legitimate concerns with the fringes left and right. And sadly the fringe are proving it.
What bugs me is why all of a sudden are these attacks getting through.
So here is how it would have happened in London.
The bad man would have entered a museum and pulled out his gun.
(Yes, all the bad guys in England have guns, only the rest of us do not)
The guards would not have been armed. Maybe one of them might have
escaped and managed to make a call. The others would be dead.
It would take our SWAT teams about fifteen minutes to respond, by which
time the location of the gunman would be unknown and many more
people would be dead.
Fortunately, you are an armed people, and the matter was brought to
a finish quickly, as it should be.
Now who is it that wants to disarm you?
There are a lot of posts on this site about our mysterious Polonium
smuggling incident. Although no conclusion was achieved, the Polonium
incident shows us that
The most obvious explanation need not be the true one.
And the true explanation, if it is sanctioned by the right secret agencies
will never come out.
In the last few months there has been three stupid shootings in the US,
this one, the murder of that abortion doctor, and the murder of three
policemen by some guy who was afraid the government would
take way his guns.
So I will adapt a famous joke
“Just because you are paranoid doesn’t mean that you don’t have
real enemies”
becomes
“Just because you have a theory of a conspiracy doesn’t mean that
no conspiracy exists”.
Your Obama wants to disarm you. And he cannot unless a whole
series of highly visible outrages take place. I count three so far
and I predict many more. I do not wish them to happen.
But I know the Left and I know of Saul Alinsky and these are his
methods.
I cannot prove this is true and you cannot prove this is not true, so…..
You should take care.
AJ, “Now you are talking to me”! Great post.
Gateway Pundit has a post on this guy”
—–
The anti-semitism of von Brunn is the first thing one notices when visiting these bizarre websites. However, like those of most “white supremacists”, many of von Brunn’s political views track “Left” rather than “Right.” Clearly, a re-evaluation of these obsolete definitions is long overdue.
For example, he unleashed his hatred of both Presidents Bush and other “neo-conservatives” in online essays. As even some “progressives” such as the influential Adbusters magazine publicly admit, “neoconservative” is often used as a derogatory code word for “Jews”. As well, even a cursory glance at “white supremacist” writings reveals a hatred of, say, big corporations that is virtually indistinguishable from that of anti-globalization activists.
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/06/crazed-holocaust-museum-killer-hates.html
—
The thing is, I doubt any nutcase fits into a single category. Extremism like this belongs in a category by itself. I don’t think they should paint any nut (or groups of nuts) into “right wing” or “left wing” unless those groups claim them or support them. It’s an insult, devisive, and pits groups against each other (which only stirs up more anger).
Brunn was anti Christian, too:
http://www.whatswrongwiththeworld.net/2009/06/antichristian_white_supremacis.html
Lt Col Ralph Peters said something the other day that really resonates with me. There seems to be a rise in domestic violence; and, what is troubling is there seems to be a convergence of these extremist groups from both sides.
About the Miranda Rights issue. This may not be a policy change.
http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2009/06/you-have-the-right-to-burst-out-laughing.html
excerpt:
“There has been no policy change nor blanket instruction for FBI agents to Mirandize detainees overseas,” he said in a statement, adding, “While there have been specific cases in which FBI agents have Mirandized suspects overseas, at both Bagram and in other situations, in order to preserve the quality of evidence obtained, there has been no overall policy change with respect to detainees.”
James Von Brunn, Like Most Holocaust Deniers are From the Left not the Right
http://macsmind.com/wordpress/2009/06/10/james-von-brunn-like-most-holocaust-deniers-are-from-the-left-not-the-right/
Mac Ranger’s report also says that Brunn was a registered Democrat from Maryland.
Does it matter? Well, maybe some of those lefty bloggers will reign in some of their anti conservative rants a bit.
It just goes to show that “hate” isn’t “left” or “right”……it’s “evil”.
And, all this “left vs right extremism” division is a distraction and irrelevant.
Frogg,
The only thing that matters is most of sane conservatives knew the DHS report was about violent extremists and did not go into drama queen meltdown!
LOL! geez man, get over it. You keep trying to pin the nut on the left, the left keeps trying to pin the nut on the right, and everyone is frigging drama queen about it.
No AJ, I am not trying to pin the nut on the left. I simply posted some articles to counter the MSM/lib bloggers trying to tarnish the right with this guy.
Here were my words:
“The thing is, I doubt any nutcase fits into a single category. Extremism like this belongs in a category by itself. I don’t think they should paint any nut (or groups of nuts) into “right wing” or “left wing” unless those groups claim them or support them. It’s an insult, devisive, and pits groups against each other (which only stirs up more anger).”
“It just goes to show that “hate” isn’t “left” or “right”……it’s “evil”.
And, all this “left vs right extremism” division is a distraction and irrelevant.”
I’ve already spoken to the faulty report. Homeland Security apologized and withdrew the report pointing out the flaws themselves.
This particular nut is a white racist the same way that the Wright nut is a black racist. They hate. So, anyone know any conservatives that would like to sit and listen to either for 20 years? Nope. Neither fall into a slot that a sane person would attend more than once. I tend to think this Brunn falls closer left than right because unlike the right, the left does not even attempt to renounce their racists. Nope. They make them legal and legit.
The Weekly Standard magazine may have been one of Brunn’s targets also.
I just watched Keith Olberman’s take-off on this supposed “right-wing” act of violence, and how it so justifies and dignifies the recent DHS report. “What was Janet apologizing for,” he asked? His chose the broadest brush he could lift to help him paint the right with guilt over this unfortunate event.
But I think he and others who are so quick to categorize are missing the bigger picture.
In terms of today’s right and left in America, this guy seems to fit much better on the left, IF we feel we must categorize him leftward or rightward. I doubt the DHS would have found this guy at a “Tea Party”, but more likely contributing comments to “The Daily Kos”.
Today, the left is all about the control of populations and the power of the state, while today’s right trumpets individual freedom and individual rights, within reasonable limits of course. Carbon (read freedom) control, national health care, political correctness, gun control, hate (read thought) crime legislation, on and on and on — all devices of the left to exert state power via intimidation and indoctrination of the masses, at the expense of personal liberties.
White supremacists and Shoah shirkers do not care about the individual. They are concerned with group and/or state power, as were the Nazis this guy worships, and as is fundamentalist Islam. They, along with other control freaks and Stalinists, being responsible for untold millions of torturous and violent deaths through history — all in the name of collective power and control by a select few chosen elites. Power — kills.
The modern left, having little interest anymore in classic liberalism, seems more sympathetic towards Islamic terrorists and Latin American Marxist/Communist charmers — all interested not a bit in the rights of individuals to pursue happiness on their own terms — than they are toward the American soldier, who defends a country founded on principles of individuality, not statism.
Sorry, but both Von Brunn and “Muhammad” (who shot the recruit recently) are leftists, by any practical definition.
Their attitudes toward the American military, Israel, Islam, the Holocaust, and more broadly human freedom and equality vs human control and obsessive pigeonholing — are far better aligned with that famous leftist Barack Obama, his former black-separatist preacher and their friends at “The Daily Kos” — than they are with say …… Sarah Palin, that gun-totin’ stimulus-denyin’ universal building code-hatin’ “right winger” with an Israeli flag in her office.
I think perhaps our DHS needs to reevaluate its left-wing / right-wing rating system, and they may be wasting tons of time on the distractions and false leads the current thinking causes. Things fit better and make more sense when we think of the scale as moving between those devoted to state or group control — and those believing in simple and traditional personal freedom and its beneficial byproduct — capitalism.
I see the former as much more inherently dangerous and omni-threatening, sometimes in ways that don’t gain the spotlight and don’t kill outright, while the latter is subject only to a rare (and certainly not rational or condoned) loss of composure due to an overwhelming onslaught upon their freedoms, sensibilities and long-standing traditions.
Well AJ, I understand your frustration, and I’m right there with you buddy.
But…..
Get used to it, because The ONE is back to the “Law Enforcement Appproach”, as he’s secretly ordered FBI Agents to “Mirandize” “HVT’s” captured on the Battlefield.
Anyone want to start an over/under on when the NEXT 9/11 takes place?
Of course, it will be “Bush’s Fault”, when it does happen!
We. Are. So. Screwed!
For some reason, the link that was supposed to be tagged to “millions of torturous and violent deaths” didn’t show up.
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/
Gary, fixed it. The html format was not right.
Great, now we have to mirandize them? Can we do it after who shoot them or blow them up?
Speaking of morons ….
The guy is a left wing wacko. Hated conservatives, hated Jews.
He is a registered Democrat in Maryland. He also allegedly had “The Weekly Standard” on his target list.
AJ:
Brunn was supposedly targeting Fox News and the Weekly Standard, and he is a registered Democrat.
And no, most socalled sane conservatives did not know that the DHS report was only targeting extremists. Unless of course you think the American Legion leadership is insane.
When the DHS report talked about left wing groups, they talked about specific groups and people…when they talked about right wing extremists, they did not specify groups…they simply referred to veterans, abortion opponents and such. So that means you too AJ.
crpsspatch:
I should have read your comment before I wrote that.
I will admit that I occasionally check out various Socialist/Communist websites and white supremacist whacko sites. Not because I subscribe to any of the views, but just to see how the most extreme of both sides perceive various issues. I have been doing this throughout the Bush years. I assure all of you, that the racist neo-nazis HATED Bush. And they were strongly opposed to the Iraq war. To them, the Iraq war is a war on Israel’s behalf. Many of their blog posts called for Bush to be impeached, just like many on the left. So how could sane thinking person atempt to tie this kook to the right wing? Probably our friends on the left are either too lazy to check on these background facts, or too eager to score political points.
This tragic incident reminds me of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Helping victims is not of any importance to various talking pinheads on TV or in the blogosphere. What is more important, is using a national tragedy in order to smear political opponents.
My prayers go out to the fallen security guard’s family.
There have been unconfirmed reports that James W. von Brunn was registered as a Democrat in the state of Maryland
AJ:
I don’t agree with everything Jesse Walker says about DHS, but this was exactly right I think:
Why did the DHS report come under such fire? It wasn’t because far-right cranks are incapable of committing crimes. It’s because the paper blew the threat of right-wing terror out of proportion, just as the Clinton administration did in the ’90s; because it treated “extremism” itself as a potential threat, while offering a definition of extremist so broad it seemed it include anyone who opposed abortion or immigration or excessive federal power; and because it fretted about the danger of “the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities.” (Note that neither the killing in Kansas last month nor the shooting in Washington yesterday was committed by an Iraq or Afghanistan vet.) The effect isn’t to make right-wing terror attacks less likely. It’s to make it easier to smear nonviolent, noncriminal figures on the right, just as the most substantial effect of a red scare was to make it easier to smear nonviolent, noncriminal figures on the left. The fact that communist spies really existed didn’t justify Joseph McCarthy’s antics, and the fact that armed extremists really exist doesn’t justify the Department of Homeland Security’s report.
There are people on the left who are already saying that the Tea Parties are the same kind of extremism. I wonder if Obama’s DHS will do a “report” on them?