Jul 22 2009
Most People Have Health Care, And Probably Don’t Want The Government Messing With It
Most Americans have health care according to Gallup:
Obama and Dems want us to focus on the 14% without coverage, but the political reality is which is the bigger interest group. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.
I would wager the ONLY things the insured people would allow government to do is make insurance more affordable and remove the pre-existing conditions barriers for access. Beyond that I doubt that 84% of the population want the feds to touch a damn thing. They don’t trust government – why should they? Obama has proven not to be able to keep his word or promises, so his job stimulus failures are a good indicator of why the feds will be seen as making things worse.
It should be interesting to see how the GOP preempts the President this afternoon.  I would point out more people rent than own homes. By the Obamacare standard we need to all give up  some parts of our homes so everyone can have one. Why don’t we have the government hand out homes to one and all? What about cars? What about TVs? When does the government hand out end to give to the minority what they cannot afford?
Obamacare is in deep trouble because there is no upside for the 84% of us who are covered. President Obama claims we can keep our doctors and plans, but that is a disingenuous lie. We can keep them until 2013, then private plans are banned and companies will have walked away from providing the benefits to their employees.
no disagreement with any of your main points – just pointing out that I think you meant to say that more people own rather than rent their homes, rather than vice versa.
“Why don’t we have the government hand out homes to one and all? What about cars? What about TVs? When does the government hand out end to give to the minority what they cannot afford?”
It took you awhile, but you’ve finally outlined Obama’s true agenda, which is to do all of those things. He’s not going to be a Clinton and triangulate to the middle – Obama is going to go down with his far-left ship, and he’s going to take as much of the country as he can down with him just out of spite.
Thanks WWS. But I think more people rent?
Oh, I don’t know – the millions of people in bankruptcy because of skyrocketing healthcare costs might disagree with you.
People denied because of “pre-existing conditions” might disagree with you.
People dropped from their healthcare, or fired by their company after they are diagnosed with a terminal disease (such as leukemia) might disagree with you.
And people who actually have a freaking heart, and care about the 40 million Americans (including millions of children) who don’t have health care insurance might disagree with you. They are actual, real *people* – they are not “an interest group”. What a disgusting way to describe them.
Plus, your primary argument is completely and utterly wrong:
“By 72 to 20 percent, Americans favor the creation of a public plan, the June survey by the New York Times and CBS News found. People also said that they thought government would do a better job than private insurers of holding down health-care costs and providing coverage.”
So yes – Americans *DO* want the government involved. You don’t – but you’re a member of the lunatic fringe. Please don’t speak for the rest of us.
Guy – you truly are an idiot. The two things I specifically pointed out people would support was lowering the cost and removing the pre-existing conditions barriers.
I mean do you read things before you demonstrate why liberals are not prepared to deal with even the simplest aspects of tough and complex issues?
Heart? You guys don’t have minds. To you cheap for all is best.
Fools pretending to be know-it-alls. Thankfully they only ones you are deluding are your silly selves.
Apparently the ACTUAL number of people w/o insurance is EIGHTEEN million NOT 46 million. Now 11 million or so are illegal aliens.
So that leaves 7 million. How many of these are 22-30 years old?
Second of all, we are NOT addressing the real issues about health care costs: LAWSUITS, Tort reform and FRAUD. I guarantee you that if THOSE issues were addressed costs would go WAY DOWN.
I believe it was Judge Crier that said that we consumers are paying an extra $3000 per year due to lawsuits on manufacturers. Don’t know if doctors are included in this $3000. I heard today that surgeons pay $200,000.00 per year for malpractice insurance!!! TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS. This is absurd!!
Where is the discussion about this? NO where to be found because…
This entire crisis is manufactured by the democrats trying to increase/ensure (no pun intended!) their base: the illegals and the lawyers being a big part.
Here is what most people aren’t getting and the Democrats are doing NOTHING to educate people about:
Yes, maybe up to 16% are uninsured at any given moment but most people are uninsured for less than a year. The majority of the uninsured are “between policies” because they are “between jobs” and will be covered again once they start their next job.
The 16% number is somewhat inflated because it leads people to believe that “16% of Americans” are without insurance, which isn’t true. The number is “16% of people in America”. You have 12 million illegal aliens who are without insurance and the families of the “chronically unemployed” and prisoners in that number. But (and I believe I heard this yesterday on the radio) something like 90% of the people without insurance today WILL be insured within a year.
85% of the growth in uninsured are immigrants, legal and otherwise.
This is NOT the major problem it is being played up to be. A few tragic cases are trotted out by the Democrats and is portrayed as the “norm” when they are really “corner cases”.
The OVERWHELMING majority of people LIKE their current insurance. They have been led to believe that there are droves of people who don’t have any and feel sorry for them and want to see them covered. That is the spirit of America. We want to help our neighbor in need. BUT the problem isn’t as bad as they are being led to believe it is. The problem is being hyped as a hook to get this social agenda shoved down our throats.
Just like “global warming” is used to get other parts of the agenda rammed through.
Homeownership rates peaked in 2005 at 69%, and although the rate has fallen since then it is still at 67%.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3bGnkNeoPxk/Skh1RX0LdCI/AAAAAAAADBg/8c6UXkxpkLY/s1600-h/HomeownershipQ12009.jpg
That’s why problems in the home loan industry could quickly balloon into a problem that affected the entire economy.
watching guy slobbering over himself shrieking “do it for the CHILDREN, AWAAAH WAAH WAAAAHHH!!” has gotten beyond pathetic. Just to humor the moron, A) it isn’t going to help “the children”, it’s going to make their care worse by destroying the health systems that they CAN get care through today, and B) How does it help “The Children!!!” (or anyone else) to bankrupt the country they are going to grow up in? Ever think of that one?
Well of course not. Morons like that couldn’t care less about numbers or REAL outcomes. All that matters is that they voted to SAVE THE CHILDREN!!! Which is in fact doubly ironic, since Guy and his comrades would vastly have preferred that most of those children would have been aborted beforehand. That’s why this plan will mandate paid for abortions on demand.
Obama and Guy must kill the children in order to save them!!! And once we understand that, we can understand what a truly perverse and sick element of society Guy represents.
Also, I will give two real cases from my life … I chose not to have health insurance until I was about 30. I wanted the money instead.
I hired someone a couple of years ago to watch my kids for me over summer vacation while I was at work. I offered to pay half of a health insurance policy for her and her child with Kaiser Permanente. She thanked me but turned it down saying she would rather have the “free” insurance provided by the State of California.
Here is a bill I could support:
1. Require insurance companies to pool the self employed and small employers together into larger groups for better rates.
2. Eliminate the “pre existing condition” barriers to new policies provided the policy is being issued for a new employee and not simply to jump to a better plan once a major illness is discovered. So if you change employers and have a pre-existing condition, you would be covered. If you took a cheap plan with little coverage, discovered a major problem and want to “jump” to a different plan with better coverage, it would still suck to be you.
3. Provide subsidized continuing coverage for the unemployed for up to one year.
That would cover just about all the “uninsured”.
AJ, you wrote:
“I would wager the ONLY things the insured people would allow government to do is make insurance more affordable and remove the pre-existing conditions barriers for access. Beyond that I doubt that 84% of the population want the feds to touch a damn thing.”
And that couldn’t be more wrong. 72% of the country wants there to be a public option – only 20% don’t want it. And that’s certainly going to involve “touching” a few “damn thins”.
“They don’t trust government – why should they?”
That is also demonstrably false, by that same poll. They trust the gov’t to keep costs down more than they trust private insurance companies.
So, you wrote a post about how “most Americans” feel, assuming that they felt the same way you do. (A common trait amongst wingnuts.) When shown evidence proving that you are wildly inaccurate and that every assumption you made was wrong – you then have the audacity to call *me* “an idiot”?
How about trying to do even the SLIGHTEST bit of research before writing your next article?
Guy’s flogging a push poll that is way out of date. Like all leftists, he lives in a world where everyone worships the same tin gods he does.
But in the REAL world of REAL polls, done this month:
National Survey of 1,000 Likely Voters
Conducted July 14-15, 2009
2* Would it be a good idea to set up a government health insurance company to compete with private health insurance companies?
35% Yes
50% No
15% Not sure
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/toplines/pt_survey_toplines/july_2009/toplines_health_care_july_14_15_2009
COMPETE WITH is the operative word. The current House bill phases private health insurance out completely. You can keep your existing health plan as long as NO changes are made to it. When you change jobs or if the carrier wants to make a change, you must be placed on the public plan. Over time everyone ends up on the public plan and the private insurance companies disappear.
The government has three health care operations already. Medicare, the Veterans Administration, and the Indian Health Service. All of them suck. Why do they want to ruin health care for everyone?
There is NO REASON for mandatory government health insurance.
whoops, new poll out, last one is already outdated. Obama’s support is dropping like a rock.
53% Now Oppose Congressional Health Care Reform
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/healthcare/july_2009/53_now_oppose_congressional_health_care_reform
Pg 22 MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure.
Pg 30 Sec 123 – THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits people get.
Pg 42 – The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!
PG 50 Section 152 HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise.
Pg 58 – Govt will have real-time access to individuals’ finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued.
Pg 59 lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
pg 124 lines 24-25 No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No “judicial review” against Govt monopoly.
Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll new employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE
Pg 195 -officers and employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans finanancial/personal records.
Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own of their practice.
Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand.
Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from indiv. taxes. (Americans will pay and be fined if they don’t have insurance).
PG 203 Line 14-15 “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax” Yes, it says that.
Pg 241 Line 6-8 – Doctors, doesnt matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same.
Pg 354 Sec 1177 – Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special Needs people.
The following are simply HEINOUS:
PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life
Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!
PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death
PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends
Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An “adv. care planning consult” will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates
PG 429 Lines 10-12 “adv. care consultation” may incl an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV
Pg 429 Lines 13-25 – The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.
PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life
I can’t go any farther. This bill is a MONSTER.
The above were from here. Cleaned up a bit from twitter text.
This bill is designed to rescue Social Security by killing off old people.
crosspatch:
“You can keep your existing health plan as long as NO changes are made to it. When you change jobs or if the carrier wants to make a change, you must be placed on the public plan. Over time everyone ends up on the public plan and the private insurance companies disappear.”
That is completely and utterly false, and the fact that you are foolish enough to believe it does not speak well of you. Please provide evidence supporting your “facts” (should be amusing, since they don’t exist).
“The government has three health care operations already. Medicare, the Veterans Administration, and the Indian Health Service. All of them suck.”
Americans are more satisfied with Medicare than private healthcare insurance.
Jeezus – can you people type ANYTHING that isn’t wrong?
“That is completely and utterly false”
No, Fawkes, YOU are the one wrong on this one. You can keep your existing care as long is it NEVER changes. An employer can keep existing employees on private plans but ALL NEW employees MUST go on the public plan.
Few people stay in the same job their entire life and never have changes to their plan.
here is a link to the bill (PDF). Read it yourself. Page 16.
You can keep the coverage you have as long as the amount of the premium never changes, as long as the cost sharing with your employers never changes, pretty much as long as nothing ever changes. If any of those things change, you MUST go on the public plan … and all NEW coverage after the law is effective MUST be on the public plan.
Now GuyFawkes, please, wait until you know what you are talking about before making more inane, idiotic, comments.
If Fawkes had to wait until he knew what he was talking about – LOL! that will never happen. But I guess even he realized how lame it was to keep gloating about how Obama is the most wonderfullest, bestest president ever and that’s why he has Obama’s face embroidered on his pillows. Obama’s star is sinking fast.
And the real poison pill isn’t just that you can never change your insurance, it’s that the effect of this is to put the insurance companies out of business very quickly.
Name me a business that can survive with no new customers – there isn’t one. It’s an intentional death sentence for those companies. That’s the entire point of it.
Guy:
Well according the CBO this plan of Obama’s will raise costs, not lower them. There is no reason to believe that anything will change in regards to bankruptcy. Obama can lie to people and tell them health care will be virtually free under his plan, but it will not.
and btw, medical costs are the last things people pay, that is why often times when they go into bankruptcy there are health care costs. They will pay the mortgage and car payments etc first. Lawyers will always tell you to pay the hospital last. So, perhaps if people did not have so many other costs, they could better pay their health care costs.
As for people having a heart, the Republican plan does deal with a lot of the problems you talked about without having government take over health care.
Speaking of having a heart, letting old people die in some sort of rationing plan is not exactly a kind approach to health care. And that is exactly the kind of thing we would see with Obama’s plan.