Sep 15 2006
Americans Should Not Die For Article 3, Geneva Conventions
If the Rep and Dem Senators leading the fight to gut our interrogation options in the face of a vaguely worded clause in the Geneva Conventions just stopped talking and thought about what they were saying, they would be surprised to find out they were interpretting the conventions in such a way as to violate the purpose for the conventions to exist in the first place.
The Geneva Conventions were developed to assure soldiers and civilians were treated humanely during the inhumane times of war. Therefore, any act by the terrorists should be no more allowed than acts of misguided legislators that violate this basic intent of the conventions. Right now there are some seriously misguided Senators who are claiming their fear of future violations of the conventions require innocent civilians to probably die now. In a perfect example of living in a bubble, and letting the letter of the law undermine the intent of the law, we have seen Rep and Dem Senators risk lives today so they can pretend they are saving lives tomorrow.
For people who think I am exaggerating I am not. The question before the Senate is to put reasonable expectations around ludicrously vague and broad wording in one subsection of Article 3 of the conventions. The wording can be read to conclude calling terrorists “Islamo Fascists” as violating this element of the convention. President Bush came out today to try and clear the fog around the heads of these legal theorists by applying some serious reality:
The bill would also provide clear rules for our personnel involved in detaining and questioning captured terrorists.
BUSH: The information that the Central Intelligence Agency has obtained by questioning men like Khalid Sheik Mohammed has provided valuable information and has helped disrupt terrorist plots, including strikes within the United States.
For example, Khalid Sheik Mohammed described the design of plane attacks on building inside the U.S. and how operatives were directed to carry them out. That is valuable information for those of us who have the responsibility to protect the American people.
He told us the operatives had been instructed to ensure that the explosives went off at a point that was high enough to prevent people trapped above from escaping.
He gave us information that helped uncover Al Qaida cells’ efforts to obtain biological weapons.
We’ve also learned information from the CIA program that has helped stop other plots, including attacks on the U.S. Marine base in East Africa, our American consulate in Pakistan, or Britain’s Heathrow Airport.
BUSH: This program has been one of the most vital tools in our efforts to protect this country. It’s been invaluable to our country, and it’s invaluable to our allies.
Were it not for this program, our intelligence community believes that Al Qaida and its allies would have succeeded in launching another attack against the American homeland.
There is a huge spectrum of acts between asking someone ‘please’ in a dignified manner and applying car battery jumpers to the genitals. In this incredible broad range of interrogation tactics are acts of sleep deprivation, declothing, cold rooms and loud rock music (which is basically how I spent some of my college days – if I recall correctlty). Add some booze and I am sure most of us will (and did) talk about anything and everything. These latter acts have been called torture by terrorist-siding liberals desparate for votes. These lefties only echo what any smart terrorist would claim if they thought it would halt the interrogations and put them into the endless court appeals process. So what is going on here?
Bush is stating, unequivocally, that without putting the terrorists on ice with some mood music in the background it is a given Americans would have died. What Bush is clearly implying (but not specifically saying because he knows his audience has more than two brain cells to rub together) is that without these abilitites Americans will die. Innnocent Americans. Americans who are supposed to be protetcted by these same conventions Graham and McCain and Warner and others say will be moot if we try and interpret them OUR way.
Bush noted that our IC interrogators will not and should not expose themselves to legal jeopardy over this insane clause. But what he did not say, and did not need to say, is the conventions cannot be interpretted in such a manner as to result in the very things they were designed to avoid. Those balking at clarifying these conventions so we can use tough questioning methods on some exceptionally hardened and dangerous people need to wake up. Or they will be standing at the base of a burning high rise filled with dead and dying people while holding onto a piece of international paper trying to convince themselves those above them are dying for a good cause.
I will say it again and again until it sinks in – no Americans should die for Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions. And clearly they will if we let the Three Rep Amigos and the dems gut oue interrogation options down to simply “please” and “pretty please?”.
It seems the source for this strange legal mythology is eminating from the JAG corps in the Pentagon. H/T Clarice Feldman
These Senators and Powell are worried about our international reputation. That reputation is being defined by the International Red Cross as to what is permissible to do to a detainee. These Senators are willing to have the Geneva Convention defined by them to improve our image in the world. What a CROCK, has anyone listened to them lately. Name, rank and serial number that’s it. Bush is saying that the American people have the responsibility to define the conventions in our law. Other nations may follow, but at least by our law what we do is legal. Our guys will not be tried in an international court. So our law is what is important. We got into this mess because the Supreme Court said, wrongly in my opinion, that the terrorist should be covered under the Convention. Why, because they were playing to international public opinion.
In my opinion, this is all about tilting at windmills.
Like several blogs I reviewed today, give me one past or potential future conflict where the GC would be applied to our troops.
Has no one yet got it that you can’t legislate morality?
If we accept the concept that everthing should be settled by doing a whittle to the middle, all the left has to do is move the goalposts farther left and the middle position is dragged in the same direction.
This may be a workable thing for awhile, like it has been, but eventually someone will get a clue when they listen to Kenny Rodgers “Coward of the Country” and get that “You could have heard a pin drop when he stopped to lock the door”
grr that was County not Country.. my bad
I don’t know how much more pissed off I can get at Colin Powell. He was career Army. McCain was a POW. I guess they are of the mindset that our soldiers have always been afforded GC protections. Really worked for McCain, didn’t it.
As I read the GC, these terrorists slugs don’t even fit the criterion of military. But nooooooo, we have to provide them GC protections that are not in the GC. Now all McCain et al wants is name, rank and jihad number.
I have said all along it will take another attack on our nation to wake these fools up. I am sure that when they tell the families of the victims that we at least, held the moral high ground, it will make the families feel much better about terrorists slugs killing their loved ones.
Retired: Ditto on Colin Powell. Instead of conducting himself with honor and supporting the President, he appears to be sidiling up with the few politicians who he feels may slavage his career. He has become to me my biggest disappointment ever as I had a great deal of admiration for him at one time.
Do you think we could be headed for a McCain/Powell or McCain/Graham ticket in 08???? Perhaps as Independents but I do not believe the Conservatives would give them the nod.
If left to the likes of these men, we will all eventually answer to the terrorists and I for one do not plan on sitting out an election to assist them in their goals.
McCain is banking on the dems and the independents to get him elected in ’08.
I cannot figure out why he is taking this stance, except to totallty separate himself from the President…
Or was he trying to beat the dems at their own game….I just don’t see that. Or is he helping to keep the issue of security on the hot burner….I can wish…
SMH, one thing always bothered me about Colin Powell. He never seem to have the backing of Stormin’ Norman Swartzkopf. Stormin Norman never said anything bad about Powell, he just never said anything. You would have thought he would have been happy for his old compadre who made it to the highest level of our government, save the presidency. Nope. Norman said nada. Why?
McCain is a sell out. He and John Kerry are cut from the same cloth. Both are more interested in their careers and the key to the Oval Office than they are about the Americans they serve. I have not liked McCain since he sold out the POWs in Vietnam. And friends in Arizona who are in the know said that McCain’s temper is legandary.
McCain/Powell? Possibly. McCain has hired Armitage as his foreign advisor to the McCain for President campaign. McCain/Graham? I don’t think that would fly. Graham shined during the Alito hearings but has since spent all that capitol.
The Geneva Convention rules are moot when the other side does not abide by them. And even go so far as to commit atrocities on our servicemen. What use are they to us? Besides, these rules are between countries, not individuals who are intent on killing all of us. It is laughable that these old men who have been in congress and on the Washington social circuit too long to represent mainstream America. It is too bad that most primaries are done, maybe some of these fossils could be voted out of office.
The Captains Quarter blog had an excellent commentary today on the reality of the GC effectiveness
http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/008069.php
We can legislate ourselves into a PC tizzy but it does nothing to change reality, a concept few can grasp, but many suffer from.
This is not just a hit on our situation with the Iraq situation, it is a reality check.
We can define good behavior all we wish, but how can anyone can expect that others will be so accomodating.
Darfur anyone.
Americans Should Not Die For Article 3, Geneva Conventions: Your essay is excellent. I found it on Free Republic and sent the poster this message:
“Thanks for the posting from AJStrata on Strata-Sphere. Very good.”
I am torn on this issue having known and discussed the situation of POWs with many former POWs and having known many held in conditions by the Communist Vietnamese that had absolutely no restrictions and no oversight from any international organization. “No rules confinement.”
I am working with others just now to try to secure the release of some held in Vietnam.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1702599/posts
On the other hand, if the CIA has found a way to hook up the batteries in such a way that some really evil dude will talk and that talk will save one American life….I’ll buy the batteries for a year!
You might consider linking to us at Peace and Freedom (Number One):
http://peace-and-freedom.blogspot.com/
John E. Carey
You are doing great work!
McCain knows he cannot win as an Independent. But he will help his pal, Geo. Soros, get Hillary elected. Soros helped McCain get even with Bush for defeating him in 2000 by tying up Congress with his Campaign Fanance reform, until the Dems could convince Jeffords to switch sides, giving control of the Senate to the Dems. He blocked Bush’s cabinet and court appointments for weeks with that scheme. Graham has got to think he is going to be McCain’s running mate because he is risking all by being McCain’s toady.
And for all who think McCain was tortured and is therefore a war hero. Several years ago, I read an interview of McCain in which McCain said that his leg was broken when his plane crashed and the North Vietnamese would not give him medical treatment until he cooperated. He said as he watched his knee swell “the the size of a football” he decided it wasn’t worth it and decided to cooperate with is captors., who then promptly had a doctor treat him. His fellow POWs didn’t call him “Songbird McCain” for nothing.